Sandwell Councillor defects to Reform

[Pontificator]

It's not even a case of who to believe.

You can argue on individual incidents as to whether they happened in the way one side said it did.

But overall you cannot argue that the destruction of Gaza wrought by military bombardment will inevitably lead to the death of people, most of whom will be civilians.

You either think that's justified or it's not...propaganda is not relevant.

The morality of area bombing in Germany was questioned as early as 1941 and the deployment of atomic weapons against Japan in 1945 sparked ethical controversy - still does. I think the 400 miles of tunnels criss crossing Gaza storing weapons, ammunition, bombs, rockets. housing terrorists, with entrances/exits in schools. hospitals and mosques may be some justification.

WW2 was conducted before the 1949 Geneva Convention, so that is an invalid comparison.

It's also not as though Israel only engages in mass bombing. They also fire upon emergency workers and then try to bury the evidence:

https://news.sky.com/story/paramedic-who...y-13379058

Then there's the children and elderly people who are shot in the head by the IDF:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/a...israel-war


And again, there's also what they get up to in the West Bank.

Killing people while they were surrendering:

https://www.npr.org/2025/11/28/nx-s1-562...estigating.

Shooting dead a teenager while firing indiscriminately

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-eas...025-12-15/

And allowing Israeli settlers to attack Palestinians while they are harvesting their olive trees:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/israel...ve-harvest

Will you justify all that too?

The West Bank has been the source of suicide bombings, shootings, and other attacks during the Second Intifada. Israel says arrests, raids, checkpoints, and surveillance are aimed at militant networks. Israel does not regard the West Bank as occupied, but as disputed territory. Jews have historical and religious rights to live in the area and it was not Palestinian territory before 1967, but controlled by Jordan. Ties to the area are seen as security buffers and provide strategic depth and defensive positioning. Israel argues that the West Bank’s final status was meant to be resolved through negotiations, under the Oslo Accords. It claims Palestinian leadership has rejected or failed to conclude multiple peace offers. Therefore, Israel says maintaining control is a temporary necessity until a final agreement is reached. Israel often contrasts the West Bank with Gaza, arguing that Israel withdrew fully from Gaza in 2005. The takeover by Hamas and subsequent conflict shows what can happen when territory is vacated without security guarantees. Israel is at war with Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah etc and will defend it self when and where it can. When there is war there are civilian casualties, occasional atrocities. Anyway feel free to concentrate on Yemen 40,000 deaths and the Sudan 100,000s of deaths

I can't see where in that soup of Chat GPT and whataboutery, there is any justification whatsoever for settlers to be shooting children dead or attacking Palestinians while they harvest their olive trees. Nor indeed for the IDF to be shooting people while surrendering, nor for them to be shooting dead teenage boys for the heinous crime of throwing stones

Can you?

Returning to international law, which btw also condemns both sides of the conflict in Yemen and Sudan, particularly the RSF, the UN has ruled that Israel's continued occupation of the West Bank is illegal:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjerjzxlpvdo

So Israel's claims are invalid and their actions unjustified.

I did my best to answer, it took some time. I don’t think Israel’s claims are especially valid, but they are understandable. After the suicide bombings, rockets, and shootings, they stopped giving two fucks about pro-Pal views. Then came the Oct 7th massacre, the kidnappings and rapes, the attacks Mr. P mentioned, and the absolute refusal of the terrorists’ political wing to agree to any real peace proposals. Who can blame the Israelis? They’re fucked either way.  Anyway as I said, feel free to concentrate on Yemen and the Sudan