It's The Ashes (again)

[AnelkasBeard]

That bit is irrelevant as it didn’t touch the ground during the juggle and he held it after that.

The key is did it touch the ground when he caught it and his hand hit the ground.

It is incredibly relevant. The umpire is judging that Smith had control of the ball, whilst the ball was probably touching the ground, so he judged it as a catch.

However, Smith had to maintain control of the ball throughout the process of the catch (see rule below), and the juggle clearly indicates that he didn't.

"33.3 Making a catch
The act of making a catch shall start from the time when the ball first comes into contact with a fielder’s person and shall end when a fielder obtains complete control over both the ball and his/her own movement."

Nope, if he ends with complete control, he can do keep ups, heads and volleys, anything he wants, as long as it ENDS with control and hasn’t touched the ground. The juggle is irrelevant. The only point in dispute is the earlier bit when it was borderline grounded.

You're contradicting yourself. For arguments sake, let's say that the ball did hit the ground (which it looks like it did).

For Smith to be awarded the catch, he has to have control of the ball before it touches the ground, and every moment thereafter until he controls BOTH the ball and his bodies movement (note the words "and his/her own movement" in the rule).

The juggle indicates that he was NOT in control of the ball, and his movement clearly wasn't stopped/in control. Therefore, when the ball was grounded, he wasn't in control of either the ball or his movement, so it shouldn't be a catch.

The key point is that the ball was potentially grounded, and he potentially didn't have control. One or the other would be fine, but not both. eg the Boundary catches where they throw the ball in to the air as they go over the rope, and catch it when they're back inside the rope. The ball is never grounded in that scenario.

There have literally been thousands of catches taken with a juggle. You do not need to be in control throughout the whole process if it doesn’t touch the ground. The juggle after is irrelevant. The control bit is relevant at the point the ball was close to touching, or touching the ground. The juggle on his chest after is not relevant.

Not sure if we’re talking at cross purposes. But if he scooped it without it touching the ground, then juggled, then got control, it would be fine.

I’m not sure his did though, but the chest juggle after isn’t relevant. Hence the endless replays haven’t focussed on that at all.

I agree with both bolded statements. But it did touch the ground. So the control is vitally important, and to me, him juggling it afteer the ground part, shows he didn't have control.

https://twitter.com/ESPNcricinfo/status/...0624608266

Cricinfo have posed the "control" question. I don't see how anyone can be judged to be in control of something that you end up juggling.