11-10-2020, 04:27 PM
(11-10-2020, 03:10 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:(11-10-2020, 11:15 AM)billybassett Wrote: Point Dekka?
12,949 Covid Hospital patients
128,051 non Covid Hospital patients
The health service overrun - is it? - if it is it's because of treatment of illnesses left to lay fallow for 8 months because Covid is supposedly the only thing you can die of.
My wife's breast screening has been cancelled again along with a million other women - say BreastCancer org - who also have not had screenings. Screening 200 women sees 1 women's life saved (as per NHS data).
I'm not going to go hyperbolic here because that would be silly but that's 5000 lives potentially. That's one well known, well screened illness. Wait till we get the cardiac and cancer deaths stacking up because of missed appointments. And yet I'm not supposed to mention proportionality or cost benefits of a lockdown because some already vulnerable people may die.
(11-10-2020, 01:42 PM)baggy1 Wrote: The point you keep missing billy is that if we get increased numbers in hospital because of covid they don't have capacity to do other treatments. The numbers in hospital are increasing and if we didn't lockdown or if we removed restrictions then they would fill up more. It isn't just the over 65s in hospital, they are just the ones that pay the ultimate price.
He doesn’t miss it he ignores the you’re making. He also ignores the point not everyone who is vulnerable is old and lives by themselves. Many are disabled, are recovering from serious illness of all ages and will be living with siblings, parents and carers who have to go to work, school, shops etc. The idea they can shield given these circumstances is nonsense over a prolonged period. He also ignores the point that those shielding have jobs, families to support and their own physical and mental health problems just like everyone else. It seems by this logic he wants them be the sacrificial lamb so that everyone else’s economic, social and health problems can be prioritised.
Not sure you can speak for me Deko.
I understand it fully. What I don't see at this time is any capacity issues for treating anyone. Before lockdown 2 the only capacity issues the hospitals had were because of missing staff because of the faulty PCR test. Admissions were rising exactly like they do every year and why in a badish flu season in 2018 people were in corridors. What I didn't hear about then were operations / screenings being cancelled and the country in lockdown.
This para:
"Many are disabled, are recovering from serious illness of all ages and will be living with siblings, parents and carers who have to go to work, school, shops etc. The idea they can shield given these circumstances is nonsense over a prolonged period. He also ignores the point that those shielding have jobs, families to support and their own physical and mental health problems just like everyone else. It seems by this logic he wants them be the sacrificial lamb so that everyone else’s economic, social and health problems can be prioritised."
This describes EVERY year where there are any one of 4 (now 5) respiratory illnesses in circulation. For those people you mention it could kill them as easily as Covid. Yet in EVERY other year they take precautions, as do their families and clinics they attend, but the rest of the population 10s of millions go about living their lives, paying taxes, creating joy and wealth so those people can enjoy the NHS services. And if you're going to tell me Covid is much more deadly please do your reading. It's not.
The point you are missing is that for some reason you're locked into the notion that this is a lethal virus. It's not. My last point made is that cardiac illnesses, cancer etc are way more deadly. Hence why at the moment the majority 90%+ of excess deaths are at home - so not covid as they go to hospital. And like I've said to baggy1 before nobody has yet shown me any real evidence that all the excess deaths to date were "of" covid. Lots were, it was tragic. But now your approach is akin to manslaughter of the healthy population. Grim reading at the moment is the nr of excess deaths of under 20s - all obviously non-covid. Shocking.