The Ashes

[Old Fart]

The Gruniad is doing the 100 Greatest Ashes players of all time.

100-41 here 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/ng-int...cricketers

the final 40 tomorrow.

I would imagine my great great uncle SF Barnes will feature tomorrow,  disappointing if not.

Indeed he is at No 29 

29Sydney Barnes (SF Barnes)
England
Role Bowler
Ashes era 1901-1912
Matches 20
The Jimmy Anderson of his day, only a whole lot grumpier. Barnes interrogated batting techniques for his sport, armed with the unique ability to swing and spin the ball both ways at decent pace. The ultimate demonstration of his skill came on the first morning at Melbourne in 1911-12, with England 1-0 down. Barnes opened the bowling and after five overs had figures of four for one. England went to win the series 4-1. A decade earlier, after being plucked from league cricket to make his Test debut, Barnes took 19 wickets in the first two Tests, including 13 at the MCG.  

Ashes record

Bowling Inns 36   Wkts 106    BB 7-60    Avg 21.58 5w 12    Overall Test average 16.43

His Wiki page is an interesting read.    Smethwick born.  We're all grumpy fuckers. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Barnes

He has come in at 18th in the Telegraph' top 30 

A consummate hybrid of a bowler. Over 6ft and with a high action, Sydney Barnes combined new-ball swing and quick leg-spin, probably delivered around 65-70mph, with swerve – fast off-breaks. He could also seam the ball, and varied his release point on the crease.
The Barnes speciality was for deliveries to drift in, then spin away to off stump after they had pitched. “The ball pitched outside my leg stump,” Australia’s left-hander Clem Hill recalled of one delivery in the 1911-12 Ashes, “Before I could ‘pick up’ my bat, my off stump was knocked silly.”
During that series, Barnes snared 34 wickets in England’s 4-1 win. No Englishman has taken more wickets Down Under than Barnes’s 77. Little wonder that England continued to pick him even after he gave up his county contract aged 30, instead signing with a Lancashire League team because they paid more.

[backsidebaggie]

I know it's only opinions... but surprised to see Sir Geoffrey as low as 41.
And only 3 English in the top ten.

Did Boycott have a great ashes record, good undoubtedly. Plus he did have a test hiatus which spared him the series when Thomson and Lille took us apart.

More surprised by the gap between Flintoff and Botham. Might be thinking of their overall test career not their Ashes career. Take the view that Flintoff was a better cricketer than Botham.

Now you are kidding check out the stats Botham beats Flintoff in every field Batting, bowling and catching so who was the better cricketer. Loved them both for there passion and there love of playing for England but there’s only one winner here.

Yes you are right on averages, looked it up after posting.
It's not a hill I would die on just a view which is less secure because of distance of time.
Not much of a difference in batting averages, but Botham comfortably ahead with bowling stats.
What i would argue is that the Aussie sides Botham faced were not nearly as good as the Flintoff era Aussie sides

On the other hand, flintoff played in a period where there were some much weaker teams who England could really batter. Botham only had a poor ish Sri Lanka. The other tests teams were strong. Had a world class WI, NZ, Pakistan for periods he played.

[Ted Maul]

Who's up until 2am for the first ball then?

Squad England have selected makes me think it's a straight up choice between Carse and Bashir. Australia likely to have two debutants in the team (both of whom will clearly be brilliant). Need to buck the trend of losing the first test of Ashes series. Be a great time to start.

I am excited.

[Cheshire East Baggie]

I know it's only opinions... but surprised to see Sir Geoffrey as low as 41.
And only 3 English in the top ten.

Did Boycott have a great ashes record, good undoubtedly. Plus he did have a test hiatus which spared him the series when Thomson and Lille took us apart.

More surprised by the gap between Flintoff and Botham. Might be thinking of their overall test career not their Ashes career. Take the view that Flintoff was a better cricketer than Botham.

Surprised to read this. Botham was a beast with the bat, much more inclined to bully the bowlers than Flintoff ever was. He also worked very hard on his bowling, to add new variations to what was already rapid pace and a tricky outswing. By contrast Flintoff never seemed to work hard at his game, didn't have Both's "win at all costs" mentality or the same level of "cricket brain". My impression of Flintoff is summed up as "Could have been (probably should have been) the next Ian Botham, but wasn't".

[CA Baggie]

Who's up until 2am for the first ball then?

Squad England have selected makes me think it's a straight up choice between Carse and Bashir. Australia likely to have two debutants in the team (both of whom will clearly be brilliant). Need to buck the trend of losing the first test of Ashes series. Be a great time to start.

I am excited.

I’ll be on/off TMS throughout the night.

I think it’s more important for us to win the first test. I wouldn’t see us coming back from 1-0 down, they still could.  We have to make the most of Cummins and Hazlewood being out, but like you say at least one of the debutants will probably be MotM.  It’s what happens in the Ashes when playing in the CC.

[Josh1873]

Surely you wouldn't stay up, but go to bed early and set an alarm? That's what I'm intending to do, but I'm forever finding out the way I go about things in life is fucking weird to normal folks 

[Ted Maul]

Surely you wouldn't stay up, but go to bed early and set an alarm? That's what I'm intending to do, but I'm forever finding out the way I go about things in life is fucking weird to normal folks 

Yeah, I reckon getting to bed after work, it's dark anyway and setting an alarm for 2am is the best play.

[rsbaggy2]

Who's up until 2am for the first ball then?

Squad England have selected makes me think it's a straight up choice between Carse and Bashir. Australia likely to have two debutants in the team (both of whom will clearly be brilliant). Need to buck the trend of losing the first test of Ashes series. Be a great time to start.

I am excited.

I’ll be on/off TMS throughout the night.

I think it’s more important for us to win the first test. I wouldn’t see us coming back from 1-0 down, they still could.  We have to make the most of Cummins and Hazlewood being out, but like you say at least one of the debutants will probably be MotM.  It’s what happens in the Ashes when playing in the CC.

Visions of Hogg and Thomson.

[Fido]

I know it's only opinions... but surprised to see Sir Geoffrey as low as 41.
And only 3 English in the top ten.

Did Boycott have a great ashes record, good undoubtedly. Plus he did have a test hiatus which spared him the series when Thomson and Lille took us apart.

More surprised by the gap between Flintoff and Botham. Might be thinking of their overall test career not their Ashes career. Take the view that Flintoff was a better cricketer than Botham.

Surprised to read this. Botham was a beast with the bat, much more inclined to bully the bowlers than Flintoff ever was. He also worked very hard on his bowling, to add new variations to what was already rapid pace and a tricky outswing. By contrast Flintoff never seemed to work hard at his game, didn't have Both's "win at all costs" mentality or the same level of "cricket brain". My impression of Flintoff is summed up as "Could have been (probably should have been) the next Ian Botham, but wasn't".

Tend to agree. Might be my impression but I came to see Flintoff as a bowler who could bat a bit later in his career whereas Botham always seemed a genuine all-rounder. 

On a separate note I can't begin to tell you how excited we were as kids when Botham went to Worcestershire and was spotted house-hunting in the village where we grew up, Belbroughton. Never came to pass but my pal and I were dreaming of knocking on his door and asking him to pop down the nets with us!

[SausEggBaton]

Fugged if I'm gerrin up at 2:20 a.m. to watch this bollocks.

Oh, its on TNT Sports / discovery+, and alternative streaming methods.