The housing crisis in this country and its supposed solutions

[Old Fart]

With the new law banning no fault evictions many private landlords are selling up

Many others in larger properties are converting them to HMO

HMO occupants have zero rights compared to assured shorthold tenants

Therefold due to the supply demand chain rents will increase significantly

Not true.  I can't speak for Serco HMO's run on behalf of the government,  but all tenants in private landlord's HMOs, run professionally,  get an Assured Shorthand Tenancy agreement with more or less the same rights and obligations of a single dwelling tenancy.  

Mortgage companies and insurers insist on this.

There are however numerous unlicensed HMO's where this does not occur.  They are usually shyte holes with short term tenants usually with some sort of problem.

Thats the first Ive heard of it
In the eyes of housing law they are not tenants
Whilst landlord may tell them that and is wise to give them an agreement 
They have no more rights than a lodger in your house 
They do not have exculsive rights to the property 

Yes some landlords of HMO do it properly to attract decent tenants 
A lot dont 
They state the property has one tenant occupying whereas probably 6 plus
If less than 3 people living in accommodation they dont have to register with local authority

Thats the first Ive heard of it. 

You have obviously never owned a HMO.  I owned several for 25 years.

In the eyes of housing law they are not tenants.

Wrong.  They have full tenant's rights under Part 1 of  the Housing Act 1998 and amended under part 3 of the Housing Act 1996 .

Whilst landlord may tell them that and is wise to give them an agreement

99% of landlords give tenants an AST as above to comply with local council licensing laws and insurance and mortgage conditions.  Don't forget that the AST agreement protects the landlord too in the event of a breach of contract by the tenant.  If no AST is issued you can't get a court order for repossession.

They have no more rights than a lodger in your house. 

Completely wrong.  See above and below.

They do not have exculsive rights to the property. 
Correct.  They are entitled to the the quiet enjoyment of their rented room and any common areas such as kitchen, bathrooms and garden as stipulated in the contract. Some HMO rooms have a small ensuite shower room. Landlords are careful about putting cooking facilities into a room with an ensuite because councils may reclassify the room as a flat and then apply council tax to each "flat" instead of a single council tax bill for the whole house. 

Yes some landlords of HMO do it properly to attract decent tenants
No. Most landlords do a professional job to comply with the law as above. Most of my tenants were doctors, physios, engineering graduates, IT consultants, nurses, care home workers, police officers, dentists who were all on one or two year contracts at local hospitals or care homes.  You want decent tenants as they pay the rent, don't cause trouble, look after the house and generally get on with their lives.  They are aware of their rights so expect a contract as they will have had one when studying. 

We supplied Premier Inn quality rooms and facilities and charged accordingly.  Professional people don't want to live in shit holes. Without HMOs they would not be able to take the job. They can't afford to rent a house and pay the bills and there is no social housing available.  Without HMOs you would have problems recruiting NHS staff on one or two year contracts because they would have no where to live.  AirBnB is too expensive for a long stay.  

Typically a decent room will be about £450 per month all in.  That's heating broadband electric etc.  The landlords pays gas, electricity, water, council tax, TV licence, insurance, cleaning and any other bills plus all repairs and maintenance, and provides all furniture and bedding.  A doctor arriving from another city or country could literally walk into the room with his suitcase and he has a home including new bedding. 

A lot don't .  
A few don't.  99% Do.

They state the property has one tenant occupying whereas probably 6 plus.
Those operating an illegal HMO will work on this basis. They won't "state" it anywhere if they can help it,as it is illegal,  and usually a tactic used by people traffickers and illegal landlords usually operating in areas of high  immigration,  where there is a very transient population with no questions asked. Professional people don't rent in this market. 

If less than 3 people living in accommodation they dont have to register with local authority. 
Partly correct.  A HMO has to be licensed when it has three occupied storeys and five tenants or five households. However an Article 4 area may stipulate different licence requirements such as 3 or more tenant and only two occupied storeys. These are usually in areas of high HMO density such as student towns.  Dudley is an article 4 area. But five households and three storeys is the norm.

If you send me your email address on a private message I'll send you a copy of the National Residential Landlords Association  tenants assured shortlhold tenancy agreement for a room in a HMO and other stuff about HMOs.

[Tom Joad 25]

Good answer OF, informative! The problems lie with those that don't comply, believe me, they are out there. One of my customers runs a number of HMOs and does it properly. Mainly in Brum, some owned by them and some they manage for other landlords. It's always the latter that have problems. We do exterior maintenance so rarely go inside but on occasion we have had incidents,  normally with tenants that should be in one type of institution or another. Sometimes the cleaners have had to refuse to attend because of behaviour not suitable anywhere and not in a in a shared house. Also while working on site sometimes we have been approached to do work by a neighbouring landlord, this has never worked out, we just don't take on stuff like that now without a very good look. I can confirm what you say, most tenants are professional and expect good accommodation, those places are a pleasure to work on. Others though can be between management,  even repossessed and in temporary ownership until auction with the management not even knowing who is in there. Believe me, I can back this statement up and I understand your response as you clearly do things properly.

[Old Fart]

Yes indeed. On reflection I would probably say 90% of landlords do it properly and about 10% are rogue.  Unfortunately the government go for the easy to pick on good landlords and let the rogues go free because they are never going to comply anyway.

When setting up a new tenant they legally must receive from the landlord 

An assured shorthold tenancy agreement
A deposit protection prescribed information document.
A How to Rent Guide
A How to Rent Guide made simple in case their English is not good.
A gas safety certificate for a single dwelling.  The certificate must be displayed on the notice board if it is a HMO.
A EPC  if it is a single dwelling.  That can be on the board at a HMO as the landlord pays the bills.
An  Electrical Inspection certificate - can be on the board at a HMO.
A Fire Alarm certificate - if a licensed HMO it can be on the board.
An Emergency Light certificate - can be on the board if a licensed HMO
An ICO registration certificate for the landlord.
A GDPR statement. 
A licence from the local council if required - can be on the board of the HMO. 
Any deposit must be paid into the Deposit Protection Scheme within 30 days of receipt. 
The DPS ( or a similar government service) will then issue a certificate to the tenant and the landlord.

Failure to supply any one of these will lead to a case for re-possession being thrown out of court. 

Do the tenants read them.  Nah. 

Can you see some of the dodgy cash in hand landlords that do exist providing all of this.  Not very likely. 

So the government go for those that do their best to comply  because it is too hard to take on the rogues.

That's why I got out.

[Old Fart]

Just to add some balance.  Unfortunately local councils simply do not have enough staff to go after rogue landlords.  Areas of most inner cities particularly London are cash in hand, no questions asked, no fire alarms, no fire doors, no references and a landlord abroad and a letting agent who is equally complicit in criminal activity. 

This is a rare successful prosecution, 


https://www.landlordzone.co.uk/news/repa...5k-penalty

[Pipkins]

With the new law banning no fault evictions many private landlords are selling up

Many others in larger properties are converting them to HMO

HMO occupants have zero rights compared to assured shorthold tenants

Therefold due to the supply demand chain rents will increase significantly

Not true.  I can't speak for Serco HMO's run on behalf of the government,  but all tenants in private landlord's HMOs, run professionally,  get an Assured Shorthand Tenancy agreement with more or less the same rights and obligations of a single dwelling tenancy.  

Mortgage companies and insurers insist on this.

There are however numerous unlicensed HMO's where this does not occur.  They are usually shyte holes with short term tenants usually with some sort of problem.

Thats the first Ive heard of it
In the eyes of housing law they are not tenants
Whilst landlord may tell them that and is wise to give them an agreement 
They have no more rights than a lodger in your house 
They do not have exculsive rights to the property 

Yes some landlords of HMO do it properly to attract decent tenants 
A lot dont 
They state the property has one tenant occupying whereas probably 6 plus
If less than 3 people living in accommodation they dont have to register with local authority

Thats the first Ive heard of it. 

You have obviously never owned a HMO.  I owned several for 25 years.

In the eyes of housing law they are not tenants.

Wrong.  They have full tenant's rights under Part 1 of  the Housing Act 1998 and amended under part 3 of the Housing Act 1996 .

Whilst landlord may tell them that and is wise to give them an agreement

99% of landlords give tenants an AST as above to comply with local council licensing laws and insurance and mortgage conditions.  Don't forget that the AST agreement protects the landlord too in the event of a breach of contract by the tenant.  If no AST is issued you can't get a court order for repossession.

They have no more rights than a lodger in your house. 

Completely wrong.  See above and below.

They do not have exculsive rights to the property. 
Correct.  They are entitled to the the quiet enjoyment of their rented room and any common areas such as kitchen, bathrooms and garden as stipulated in the contract. Some HMO rooms have a small ensuite shower room. Landlords are careful about putting cooking facilities into a room with an ensuite because councils may reclassify the room as a flat and then apply council tax to each "flat" instead of a single council tax bill for the whole house. 

Yes some landlords of HMO do it properly to attract decent tenants
No. Most landlords do a professional job to comply with the law as above. Most of my tenants were doctors, physios, engineering graduates, IT consultants, nurses, care home workers, police officers, dentists who were all on one or two year contracts at local hospitals or care homes.  You want decent tenants as they pay the rent, don't cause trouble, look after the house and generally get on with their lives.  They are aware of their rights so expect a contract as they will have had one when studying. 

We supplied Premier Inn quality rooms and facilities and charged accordingly.  Professional people don't want to live in shit holes. Without HMOs they would not be able to take the job. They can't afford to rent a house and pay the bills and there is no social housing available.  Without HMOs you would have problems recruiting NHS staff on one or two year contracts because they would have no where to live.  AirBnB is too expensive for a long stay.  

Typically a decent room will be about £450 per month all in.  That's heating broadband electric etc.  The landlords pays gas, electricity, water, council tax, TV licence, insurance, cleaning and any other bills plus all repairs and maintenance, and provides all furniture and bedding.  A doctor arriving from another city or country could literally walk into the room with his suitcase and he has a home including new bedding. 

A lot don't .  
A few don't.  99% Do.

They state the property has one tenant occupying whereas probably 6 plus.
Those operating an illegal HMO will work on this basis. They won't "state" it anywhere if they can help it,as it is illegal,  and usually a tactic used by people traffickers and illegal landlords usually operating in areas of high  immigration,  where there is a very transient population with no questions asked. Professional people don't rent in this market. 

If less than 3 people living in accommodation they dont have to register with local authority. 
Partly correct.  A HMO has to be licensed when it has three occupied storeys and five tenants or five households. However an Article 4 area may stipulate different licence requirements such as 3 or more tenant and only two occupied storeys. These are usually in areas of high HMO density such as student towns.  Dudley is an article 4 area. But five households and three storeys is the norm.

If you send me your email address on a private message I'll send you a copy of the National Residential Landlords Association  tenants assured shortlhold tenancy agreement for a room in a HMO and other stuff about HMOs.

I stand corrected as always told unless you have exclusive rights to the property the occupants technically were not tenants but under a licence to occupy 
I also aplaud you for running quality HMOs I have seen some pretty awful places you would not let your dog live in
HAve also some lovely homes destroyed by feral tenants too

[Old Fart]

I feel your pain.  I had one house trashed that cost £35,000 to put right, and another trashed that cost around £20,000 to put right.

Another reason I got out.

[Jack Halford]

Will only get worse following the Bonkers Renters Rights Bill.

[tHEgLASSdOORS]

Will only get worse following the Bonkers Renters Rights Bill.

A well intended move with lots of flaws. Another sticking plaster