Takeover

[CarlosCorbewrong]

A snippet from another site about Patel’s wealth.

1 day ago · Having owned several businesses of his own, Shilen now runs the Patel family office, which claims to have over $2billion in assets under management.

Again as many have said he cannot bankroll us anyway in the championship so we need to look to box clever ect. Regards his wealth, I think he’s personal wealth is around 200 million whilst the companies he deals with ect I’ve read is around the 2 billion ect in assets . Something like that, I think

The £2 billion is the Patel family’s own family office.  You do realise that’s the family’s wealth, not third party wealth?

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A snippet from another site about Patel’s wealth.

1 day ago · Having owned several businesses of his own, Shilen now runs the Patel family office, which claims to have over $2billion in assets under management.

And what are their liabilities?

Sensible families with $2 billion of assets under management don’t tend to have substantial liabilities!   They use their own wealth to fund projects and generate a return, especially with low interest rates no longer constituting “free money”.

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I’m not sure I buy into the argument it doesn’t matter if they don’t have significant cash. Even if we go down the develop the scouting, youth development, and general football department it will still be a lot easier and potentially more effective if the owners have wealth that can compete with clubs we will hopefully be up against in the Prem.

Brentford seem to be the natural blueprint but their success will get more and more difficult to sustain as time goes by.

That just needs owners with low 9-figure wealth.  Any wealth above that level is irrelevant.

---

A snippet from another site about Patel’s wealth.

1 day ago · Having owned several businesses of his own, Shilen now runs the Patel family office, which claims to have over $2billion in assets under management.

And what are their liabilities?

Sensible families with $2 billion of assets under management don’t tend to have substantial liabilities!   They use their own wealth to fund projects and generate a return, especially with low interest rates no longer constituting “free money”.

Elon Musk, the world's richest man, deliberately promo'd the Tesla Tank with a 'reserve yours for $100' so that he could go to lenders and say "I've got 1 million orders" in order to raise finance (and not use his own).  

Really rich people leverage debt and don't risk their own capital.

I do, however, assume that the Patel Group/Corp/whatevs are buying another asset and this isn't going to be Junior's plaything using his own cash.

[Pragmatist]

A snippet from another site about Patel’s wealth.

1 day ago · Having owned several businesses of his own, Shilen now runs the Patel family office, which claims to have over $2billion in assets under management.

Again as many have said he cannot bankroll us anyway in the championship so we need to look to box clever ect. Regards his wealth, I think he’s personal wealth is around 200 million whilst the companies he deals with ect I’ve read is around the 2 billion ect in assets . Something like that, I think

The £2 billion is the Patel family’s own family office.  You do realise that’s the family’s wealth, not third party wealth?

---

A snippet from another site about Patel’s wealth.

1 day ago · Having owned several businesses of his own, Shilen now runs the Patel family office, which claims to have over $2billion in assets under management.

And what are their liabilities?

Sensible families with $2 billion of assets under management don’t tend to have substantial liabilities!   They use their own wealth to fund projects and generate a return, especially with low interest rates no longer constituting “free money”.

---

I’m not sure I buy into the argument it doesn’t matter if they don’t have significant cash. Even if we go down the develop the scouting, youth development, and general football department it will still be a lot easier and potentially more effective if the owners have wealth that can compete with clubs we will hopefully be up against in the Prem.

Brentford seem to be the natural blueprint but their success will get more and more difficult to sustain as time goes by.

That just needs owners with low 9-figure wealth.  Any wealth above that level is irrelevant.

---

A snippet from another site about Patel’s wealth.

1 day ago · Having owned several businesses of his own, Shilen now runs the Patel family office, which claims to have over $2billion in assets under management.

And what are their liabilities?

Sensible families with $2 billion of assets under management don’t tend to have substantial liabilities!   They use their own wealth to fund projects and generate a return, especially with low interest rates no longer constituting “free money”.

Elon Musk, the world's richest man, deliberately promo'd the Tesla Tank with a 'reserve yours for $100' so that he could go to lenders and say "I've got 1 million orders" in order to raise finance (and not use his own).  

Really rich people leverage debt and don't risk their own capital.

I do, however, assume that the Patel Group/Corp/whatevs are buying another asset and this isn't going to be Junior's plaything using his own cash.

They did when debt was so cheap that it was free money.  It’s no longer free money.  And there’s a huge difference between paying MSD-level rates of 14% versus the sort of rates that billionaires would consider to be very cheap debt - around 5%.    They might borrow at 5% to achieve 15%+ returns.  They certainly don’t borrow at 14% to fund loss-making businesses.

[CarlosCorbewrong]

A snippet from another site about Patel’s wealth.

1 day ago · Having owned several businesses of his own, Shilen now runs the Patel family office, which claims to have over $2billion in assets under management.

Again as many have said he cannot bankroll us anyway in the championship so we need to look to box clever ect. Regards his wealth, I think he’s personal wealth is around 200 million whilst the companies he deals with ect I’ve read is around the 2 billion ect in assets . Something like that, I think

The £2 billion is the Patel family’s own family office.  You do realise that’s the family’s wealth, not third party wealth?

---

A snippet from another site about Patel’s wealth.

1 day ago · Having owned several businesses of his own, Shilen now runs the Patel family office, which claims to have over $2billion in assets under management.

And what are their liabilities?

Sensible families with $2 billion of assets under management don’t tend to have substantial liabilities!   They use their own wealth to fund projects and generate a return, especially with low interest rates no longer constituting “free money”.

---

I’m not sure I buy into the argument it doesn’t matter if they don’t have significant cash. Even if we go down the develop the scouting, youth development, and general football department it will still be a lot easier and potentially more effective if the owners have wealth that can compete with clubs we will hopefully be up against in the Prem.

Brentford seem to be the natural blueprint but their success will get more and more difficult to sustain as time goes by.

That just needs owners with low 9-figure wealth.  Any wealth above that level is irrelevant.

---

A snippet from another site about Patel’s wealth.

1 day ago · Having owned several businesses of his own, Shilen now runs the Patel family office, which claims to have over $2billion in assets under management.

And what are their liabilities?

Sensible families with $2 billion of assets under management don’t tend to have substantial liabilities!   They use their own wealth to fund projects and generate a return, especially with low interest rates no longer constituting “free money”.

Elon Musk, the world's richest man, deliberately promo'd the Tesla Tank with a 'reserve yours for $100' so that he could go to lenders and say "I've got 1 million orders" in order to raise finance (and not use his own).  

Really rich people leverage debt and don't risk their own capital.

I do, however, assume that the Patel Group/Corp/whatevs are buying another asset and this isn't going to be Junior's plaything using his own cash.

They did when debt was so cheap that it was free money.  It’s no longer free money.  And there’s a huge difference between paying MSD-level rates of 14% versus the sort of rates that billionaires would consider to be very cheap debt - around 5%.    They might borrow at 5% to achieve 15%+ returns.  They certainly don’t borrow at 14% to fund loss-making businesses.

I suspect most (actual) billionaires don't pay anywhere near 14% or deal with vultures like MSD.  In fact I suspect those with a track history like Patel can get it far below 5%.  Hell, he might even do an intracompany loan.

[Mr Nimbus]

I’m not sure I buy into the argument it doesn’t matter if they don’t have significant cash. Even if we go down the develop the scouting, youth development, and general football department it will still be a lot easier and potentially more effective if the owners have wealth that can compete with clubs we will hopefully be up against in the Prem.

Brentford seem to be the natural blueprint but their success will get more and more difficult to sustain as time goes by.

Depends what you mean by significant cash?

We need the new owner to have enough wealth to keep MDS sweet and make further borrowing available should it be needed in the immediate future.  

We need the to have enough wealth absorb the losses FFP allows whilst we try to get back into the top league.

We then need them to have enough wealth to invest in the  infrastructure necessary to compete in the Premier League, and potentially add to the transfer and wages pot as FFP allows.

This does need significant cash but NOT at Nation State levels.   We wouldn't and couldn't buy £100m players regardless of the owners wealth.

Brighton and Brentford ARE the models. Although they are seen as the plucky underdogs both clubs have had significant debt absorbed and investment applied.  The numbers don't seem fantastic compared to the PL giants but they absolutely dwarf most Championship clubs budgets including our own.

Don't forget not that long ago under Ebeneezer and Dashworth we were the model club others looked to replicate (no surprise he ended up at Brighton) and a new DOF and Recruitment team should be top of any shopping list, the best any new money can buy.

[Pragmatist]

I’m not sure I buy into the argument it doesn’t matter if they don’t have significant cash. Even if we go down the develop the scouting, youth development, and general football department it will still be a lot easier and potentially more effective if the owners have wealth that can compete with clubs we will hopefully be up against in the Prem.

Brentford seem to be the natural blueprint but their success will get more and more difficult to sustain as time goes by.

Depends what you mean by significant cash?

We need the new owner to have enough wealth to keep MDS sweet and make further borrowing available should it be needed in the immediate future.  

We need the to have enough wealth absorb the losses FFP allows whilst we try to get back into the top league.

We then need them to have enough wealth to invest in the  infrastructure necessary to compete in the Premier League, and potentially add to the transfer and wages pot as FFP allows.

This does need significant cash but NOT at Nation State levels.   We wouldn't and couldn't buy £100m players regardless of the owners wealth.

Brighton and Brentford ARE the models. Although they are seen as the plucky underdogs both clubs have had significant debt absorbed and investment applied.  The numbers don't seem fantastic compared to the PL giants but they absolutely dwarf most Championship clubs budgets including our own.

Don't forget not that long ago under Ebeneezer and Dashworth we were the model club others looked to replicate (no surprise he ended up at Brighton) and a new DOF and Recruitment team should be top of any shopping list, the best any new money can buy.

Quite a lot to unpick there. 

The MSD debt will, I am confident, be discharged as part of the said deal. 

We’d only need to take out 14% finance again if our new overruns out of money altogether, taking into account the maximum levels of debt that an owner is allowed to put in (£24m over 3 years under the new rules).  If we are spending any more than that then we’ll fall foul of the new rules). 

If we get promoted then obviously we’ll receive huge extra TV revenue and other revenue, and yes the owners will be able to put in a higher annual amount as equity than in the Championship.  

Tony Bloom at Brighton has pumped in over £300m of debt, a lot of which I think has now been converted to equity.   Unlikely to be permissible to get to that level of debt in the first place going forward.  Brentford probably is the best example to follow, but I think they could well be dragged into a relegation fight this year, so it may prove to have not been sufficient. 

My view is that an owner with anything north of £200m of wealth can cover everything needed in the new sustainable model era, only borrowing money which can be serviced out of increased operating profits under a proper business model.

[Mr Nimbus]

I’m not sure I buy into the argument it doesn’t matter if they don’t have significant cash. Even if we go down the develop the scouting, youth development, and general football department it will still be a lot easier and potentially more effective if the owners have wealth that can compete with clubs we will hopefully be up against in the Prem.

Brentford seem to be the natural blueprint but their success will get more and more difficult to sustain as time goes by.

Depends what you mean by significant cash?

We need the new owner to have enough wealth to keep MDS sweet and make further borrowing available should it be needed in the immediate future.  

We need the to have enough wealth absorb the losses FFP allows whilst we try to get back into the top league.

We then need them to have enough wealth to invest in the  infrastructure necessary to compete in the Premier League, and potentially add to the transfer and wages pot as FFP allows.

This does need significant cash but NOT at Nation State levels.   We wouldn't and couldn't buy £100m players regardless of the owners wealth.

Brighton and Brentford ARE the models. Although they are seen as the plucky underdogs both clubs have had significant debt absorbed and investment applied.  The numbers don't seem fantastic compared to the PL giants but they absolutely dwarf most Championship clubs budgets including our own.

Don't forget not that long ago under Ebeneezer and Dashworth we were the model club others looked to replicate (no surprise he ended up at Brighton) and a new DOF and Recruitment team should be top of any shopping list, the best any new money can buy.

Quite a lot to unpick there. 

The MSD debt will, I am confident, be discharged as part of the said deal. 

We’d only need to take out 14% finance again if our new overruns out of money altogether, taking into account the maximum levels of debt that an owner is allowed to put in (£24m over 3 years under the new rules).  If we are spending any more than that then we’ll fall foul of the new rules). 

If we get promoted then obviously we’ll receive huge extra TV revenue and other revenue, and yes the owners will be able to put in a higher annual amount as equity than in the Championship.  

Tony Bloom at Brighton has pumped in over £300m of debt, a lot of which I think has now been converted to equity.   Unlikely to be permissible to get to that level of debt in the first place going forward.  Brentford probably is the best example to follow, but I think they could well be dragged into a relegation fight this year, so it may prove to have not been sufficient. 

My view is that an owner with anything north of £200m of wealth can cover everything needed in the new sustainable model era, only borrowing money which can be serviced out of increased operating profits under a proper business model.

I think we're agreeing on the whole there Prag £200 million seems small change compared to Nation State wealth but should just about cover it.

Deep enough pockets to absorb debt as needed and invest as FFP allows, but horse puncher type owners need not apply.

As I've said before the key is to have an owner personally and genuinely interested in making the club successful , putting in place a management team with the business acumen and knowledge to make it happen through canny transfer activity and infrastructure development. That in itself costs serious money.

Lai, let's face it, offered none of the above!!!

[TETLEY74]

I’m not sure I buy into the argument it doesn’t matter if they don’t have significant cash. Even if we go down the develop the scouting, youth development, and general football department it will still be a lot easier and potentially more effective if the owners have wealth that can compete with clubs we will hopefully be up against in the Prem.

Brentford seem to be the natural blueprint but their success will get more and more difficult to sustain as time goes by.

Depends what you mean by significant cash?

We need the new owner to have enough wealth to keep MDS sweet and make further borrowing available should it be needed in the immediate future.  

We need the to have enough wealth absorb the losses FFP allows whilst we try to get back into the top league.

We then need them to have enough wealth to invest in the  infrastructure necessary to compete in the Premier League, and potentially add to the transfer and wages pot as FFP allows.

This does need significant cash but NOT at Nation State levels.   We wouldn't and couldn't buy £100m players regardless of the owners wealth.

Brighton and Brentford ARE the models. Although they are seen as the plucky underdogs both clubs have had significant debt absorbed and investment applied.  The numbers don't seem fantastic compared to the PL giants but they absolutely dwarf most Championship clubs budgets including our own.

Don't forget not that long ago under Ebeneezer and Dashworth we were the model club others looked to replicate (no surprise he ended up at Brighton) and a new DOF and Recruitment team should be top of any shopping list, the best any new money can buy.

Quite a lot to unpick there. 

The MSD debt will, I am confident, be discharged as part of the said deal. 

We’d only need to take out 14% finance again if our new overruns out of money altogether, taking into account the maximum levels of debt that an owner is allowed to put in (£24m over 3 years under the new rules).  If we are spending any more than that then we’ll fall foul of the new rules). 

If we get promoted then obviously we’ll receive huge extra TV revenue and other revenue, and yes the owners will be able to put in a higher annual amount as equity than in the Championship.  

Tony Bloom at Brighton has pumped in over £300m of debt, a lot of which I think has now been converted to equity.   Unlikely to be permissible to get to that level of debt in the first place going forward.  Brentford probably is the best example to follow, but I think they could well be dragged into a relegation fight this year, so it may prove to have not been sufficient. 

My view is that an owner with anything north of £200m of wealth can cover everything needed in the new sustainable model era, only borrowing money which can be serviced out of increased operating profits under a proper business model.

I think we're agreeing on the whole there Prag   £200 million seems small change compared to Nation State wealth but should just about cover it.

Deep enough pockets to absorb debt as needed and invest as FFP allows, but horse puncher type owners need not apply.

As I've said before the key is to have an owner personally and genuinely interested in making the club successful , putting in place a management team with the business acumen and knowledge to make it happen through canny transfer activity and infrastructure development. That in itself costs serious money.

Lai, let's face it, offered none of the above!!!

Id settle for being run like we were under Baldylocks self sustaining but with an owner who can and is prepared to put some money in when its needed and with a clear vision as how to grow the club in the longterm ,surely this is not to much to wish for.

[Remi_Moses]

I’m not sure I buy into the argument it doesn’t matter if they don’t have significant cash. Even if we go down the develop the scouting, youth development, and general football department it will still be a lot easier and potentially more effective if the owners have wealth that can compete with clubs we will hopefully be up against in the Prem.

Brentford seem to be the natural blueprint but their success will get more and more difficult to sustain as time goes by.

Depends what you mean by significant cash?

We need the new owner to have enough wealth to keep MDS sweet and make further borrowing available should it be needed in the immediate future.  

We need the to have enough wealth absorb the losses FFP allows whilst we try to get back into the top league.

We then need them to have enough wealth to invest in the  infrastructure necessary to compete in the Premier League, and potentially add to the transfer and wages pot as FFP allows.

This does need significant cash but NOT at Nation State levels.   We wouldn't and couldn't buy £100m players regardless of the owners wealth.

Brighton and Brentford ARE the models. Although they are seen as the plucky underdogs both clubs have had significant debt absorbed and investment applied.  The numbers don't seem fantastic compared to the PL giants but they absolutely dwarf most Championship clubs budgets including our own.

Don't forget not that long ago under Ebeneezer and Dashworth we were the model club others looked to replicate (no surprise he ended up at Brighton) and a new DOF and Recruitment team should be top of any shopping list, the best any new money can buy.

Quite a lot to unpick there. 

The MSD debt will, I am confident, be discharged as part of the said deal. 

We’d only need to take out 14% finance again if our new overruns out of money altogether, taking into account the maximum levels of debt that an owner is allowed to put in (£24m over 3 years under the new rules).  If we are spending any more than that then we’ll fall foul of the new rules). 

If we get promoted then obviously we’ll receive huge extra TV revenue and other revenue, and yes the owners will be able to put in a higher annual amount as equity than in the Championship.  

Tony Bloom at Brighton has pumped in over £300m of debt, a lot of which I think has now been converted to equity.   Unlikely to be permissible to get to that level of debt in the first place going forward.  Brentford probably is the best example to follow, but I think they could well be dragged into a relegation fight this year, so it may prove to have not been sufficient. 

My view is that an owner with anything north of £200m of wealth can cover everything needed in the new sustainable model era, only borrowing money which can be serviced out of increased operating profits under a proper business model.

I think we're agreeing on the whole there Prag   £200 million seems small change compared to Nation State wealth but should just about cover it.

Deep enough pockets to absorb debt as needed and invest as FFP allows, but horse puncher type owners need not apply.

As I've said before the key is to have an owner personally and genuinely interested in making the club successful , putting in place a management team with the business acumen and knowledge to make it happen through canny transfer activity and infrastructure development. That in itself costs serious money.

Lai, let's face it, offered none of the above!!!

Id settle for being run like we were under Baldylocks self sustaining but with an owner who can and is prepared to put some money in when its needed and with a clear vision as how to grow the club in the longterm ,surely this is not to much to wish for.

Nothing wrong with that. Focus on the academy and youth has to be the way to go.
With maximum revenue streams important the top tier may be back on the agenda.

[Mr Nimbus]

First job for the new owner is to put a big arm around CC and tell him how important he will be to the clubs growth and development. Biggest asset that will be inherited.

[Stars n stripes]

Several weeks ago MM said we could look forward to a brighter year in 2024 when answering questions at on of the meetings attended by AFA.I wonder if he was referring to the Patel Family or was someone else the front runner at the time ?.