The cup was clearly not a priority and that’s fair enough.

[Derek Hardballs]

There’s a saying: Don’t argue with an idiot, he’ll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

I would love to win the cup, I’d swap it for promotion without blinking, but that’s not the reality of what we’re facing.  I don’t believe anyone expects us to compete at the top end of the PL but what the PL gives the club is £££, which in turn gives us better players. The best chance of us winning a cup is by being in the PL.    

To all the “How many teams” questions I’ll ask this - How many non PL teams have won either the FA or league cup?  Football, sadly, has changed and the old era of the cup relying on a bit of luck and a favourable draw has all but diminished.

I think the most frustrating part of our time in the PL is the years we were safe and still picked weak teams.  They really were the missed opportunities.

Exactly, excellent summing up regarding what I was saying, and yes it was very tiring and an exercise in futility regarding your first sentence.

[KratosBaggie]

So in summary, the aim of football is no longer to be successful and win trophies but to earn as much money by dining at the scraps of the Premier League table with little hope of sustaining long term consolidation as, unless you have a wealthy billionaire, you can't compete with the elite? There's no tangible reward for that. Players don't win medals for having a good run in the top fought, fans don't have special memories or occasions at Wemley after we finish mid table for the 3rd year running. It's all meaningless from a football point of view, isn't it? Good sides and players will always be judged on the silverware they win.

I understand the argument that we need the Premier Leagues riches to compete at this level, and to be able to even talk about winning trophies but sooner or later you drop out the league, as Swansea and Blues have done recently. But ask them about their cup wins.

So we've sacrificed the small chance of winning a cup in a number of seasons, just to try and get into the Prem or to stay in the Prem.

It's all a nonsense anyway. You get relegated because of numerous failings on and off the pitch, or you don't get promoted because you fail to win winnable games. Those measures of success aren't down to whether or not you have a cup run while playing a strong side.

We won the league and got to the Semi final of the FA Cup, which was taken seriously, and that didn't affect the success of our league campaign, did it?

We didn't take the cup seriously last season, but still got relegated.

That 2008 season is probably my favorite WBA season, ever. Why? Because we won silverware and achieved something tangible.

[Derek Hardballs]

So in summary, the aim of football is no longer to be successful and win trophies but to earn as much money by dining at the scraps of the Premier League table with little hope of sustaining long term consolidation as, unless you have a wealthy billionaire, you can't compete with the elite? There's no tangible reward for that. Players don't win medals for having a good run in the top fought, fans don't have special memories or occasions at Wemley after we finish mid table for the 3rd year running. It's all meaningless from a football point of view, isn't it? Good sides and players will always be judged on the silverware they win.

I understand the argument that we need the Premier Leagues riches to compete at this level, and to be able to even talk about winning trophies but sooner or later you drop out the league, as Swansea and Blues have done recently. But ask them about their cup wins.

So we've sacrificed the small chance of winning a cup in a number of seasons, just to try and get into the Prem or to stay in the Prem.

It's all a nonsense anyway. You get relegated because of numerous failings on and off the pitch, or you don't get promoted because you fail to win winnable games. Those measures of success aren't down to whether or not you have a cup run while playing a strong side.

We won the league and got to the Semi final of the FA Cup, which was taken seriously, and that didn't affect the success of our league campaign, did it?

We didn't take the cup seriously last season, but still got relegated.

That 2008 season is probably my favorite WBA season, ever. Why? Because we won silverware and achieved something tangible.

Yes we won silverware because we had more money than anyone in the league that season to invest in the squad thanks to Sky money. We got to the semi final without playing a single team above us in the league to put that cup run into context. 

You were a kid when we had no money, no training ground and we were regularly getting beaten by Stockport, Crewe etc. That’s why getting to the Prem is important because it has built the club you know as WBA to what it is today. 

DM or any manager for that matter is not going to concentrate on the cup when his target as set by the club is promotion. That’s the way it is, if you don’t like it go back to Halesowen for a cheese cob and a chat with the ground msman before kick-off.

[CA Baggie]

So in summary, the aim of football is no longer to be successful and win trophies but to earn as much money by dining at the scraps of the Premier League table with little hope of sustaining long term consolidation as, unless you have a wealthy billionaire, you can't compete with the elite? There's no tangible reward for that. Players don't win medals for having a good run in the top fought, fans don't have special memories or occasions at Wemley after we finish mid table for the 3rd year running. It's all meaningless from a football point of view, isn't it? Good sides and players will always be judged on the silverware they win.

I understand the argument that we need the Premier Leagues riches to compete at this level, and to be able to even talk about winning trophies but sooner or later you drop out the league, as Swansea and Blues have done recently. But ask them about their cup wins.

So we've sacrificed the small chance of winning a cup in a number of seasons, just to try and get into the Prem or to stay in the Prem.

It's all a nonsense anyway. You get relegated because of numerous failings on and off the pitch, or you don't get promoted because you fail to win winnable games. Those measures of success aren't down to whether or not you have a cup run while playing a strong side.

We won the league and got to the Semi final of the FA Cup, which was taken seriously, and that didn't affect the success of our league campaign, did it?

We didn't take the cup seriously last season, but still got relegated.

That 2008 season is probably my favorite WBA season, ever. Why? Because we won silverware and achieved something tangible.

In short, no. Read what I said again and then come back to me.

Josh,  you've just agreed with me completely.

2008 - we won a lower league trophy.  Yes it was fun but not one of the 3 domestic trophies on offer.  I don't give a monkeys this year if we finish first or second as long as we're promoted.

[Derek Hardballs]

So in summary, the aim of football is no longer to be successful and win trophies but to earn as much money by dining at the scraps of the Premier League table with little hope of sustaining long term consolidation as, unless you have a wealthy billionaire, you can't compete with the elite? There's no tangible reward for that. Players don't win medals for having a good run in the top fought, fans don't have special memories or occasions at Wemley after we finish mid table for the 3rd year running. It's all meaningless from a football point of view, isn't it? Good sides and players will always be judged on the silverware they win.

I understand the argument that we need the Premier Leagues riches to compete at this level, and to be able to even talk about winning trophies but sooner or later you drop out the league, as Swansea and Blues have done recently. But ask them about their cup wins.

So we've sacrificed the small chance of winning a cup in a number of seasons, just to try and get into the Prem or to stay in the Prem.

It's all a nonsense anyway. You get relegated because of numerous failings on and off the pitch, or you don't get promoted because you fail to win winnable games. Those measures of success aren't down to whether or not you have a cup run while playing a strong side.

We won the league and got to the Semi final of the FA Cup, which was taken seriously, and that didn't affect the success of our league campaign, did it?

We didn't take the cup seriously last season, but still got relegated.

That 2008 season is probably my favorite WBA season, ever. Why? Because we won silverware and achieved something tangible.

In short, no. Read what I said again and then come back to me.

Josh,  you've just agreed with me completely.

2008 - we won a lower league trophy.  Yes it was fun but not one of the 3 domestic trophies on offer.  I don't give a monkeys this year if we finish first or second as long as we're promoted.

CA you know he has won the argument don’t you?  He has already decided this.

[CA Baggie]

I've also not heeded my own advice on arguing with an idiot.

I'll remember that next time we discuss The Proven liar aka cunt in the cap.

[Derek Hardballs]

I've also not heeded my own advice on arguing with an idiot.

I'll remember that next time we discuss The Proven liar aka cunt in the cap.  

Come on, you’re many things as your name suggests but you’re not an idiot

[KratosBaggie]

So in summary, the aim of football is no longer to be successful and win trophies but to earn as much money by dining at the scraps of the Premier League table with little hope of sustaining long term consolidation as, unless you have a wealthy billionaire, you can't compete with the elite? There's no tangible reward for that. Players don't win medals for having a good run in the top fought, fans don't have special memories or occasions at Wemley after we finish mid table for the 3rd year running. It's all meaningless from a football point of view, isn't it? Good sides and players will always be judged on the silverware they win.

I understand the argument that we need the Premier Leagues riches to compete at this level, and to be able to even talk about winning trophies but sooner or later you drop out the league, as Swansea and Blues have done recently. But ask them about their cup wins.

So we've sacrificed the small chance of winning a cup in a number of seasons, just to try and get into the Prem or to stay in the Prem.

It's all a nonsense anyway. You get relegated because of numerous failings on and off the pitch, or you don't get promoted because you fail to win winnable games. Those measures of success aren't down to whether or not you have a cup run while playing a strong side.

We won the league and got to the Semi final of the FA Cup, which was taken seriously, and that didn't affect the success of our league campaign, did it?

We didn't take the cup seriously last season, but still got relegated.

That 2008 season is probably my favorite WBA season, ever. Why? Because we won silverware and achieved something tangible.

In short, no. Read what I said again and then come back to me.

Josh,  you've just agreed with me completely.

2008 - we won a lower league trophy.  Yes it was fun but not one of the 3 domestic trophies on offer.  I don't give a monkeys this year if we finish first or second as long as we're promoted.

CA you know he has won the argument don’t you?  He has already decided this.

[CA Baggie]

I've also not heeded my own advice on arguing with an idiot.

I'll remember that next time we discuss The Proven liar aka cunt in the cap.  

Come on, you’re many things as your name suggests but you’re not an idiot

 I reckon that's the nicest thing you've ever said to me