(10-12-2020, 05:56 PM)billybassett Wrote:

(10-12-2020, 03:31 PM)Shabby Russian Wrote:

(10-12-2020, 11:55 AM)Protheroe Wrote:

(10-12-2020, 11:15 AM)billybassett Wrote: Hopefully the tide will turn to sanity at some point instead of the devastating hot air and bluster spouted as fact by Bojo and his pal Derek.

Don't hold your breath.

The only good that has come of this whole thing is that it's further exposed how useless and self serving polticians of all parties are.

The problem with  posts is i don't understand what it is you want to see happen.

On the face of it, it appears that you advocate a let the virus have free reign and bugger the consequences.

The trouble is i suspect when the consequences happen you will be running away from taking responsibility for them.

Fundamentally my disagreement with you is that not to take some action against the spread of covid, will lead to a situation where the NHS will be overwhelmed, and it will simply not have the necessary resources to meet the demand placed on it by the UK public. This will not just adversely affect covid patients, but all patients. 

My issue with BB and Proth on this, is that you don't seem concerned by this scenario at all.

Nobody wants to see rampant deaths obviously. It's an endemic virus though so it won't go away. So regardless of whether you want it to just plot it's course or lockdown it doesn't matter.. I for one would rather we not lockdown, scrap the PCR test that's so flawed as to not to be useable, stop conflating flu and covid, stop protecting the NHS at all costs (by the way 20000 more beds available in hospitals than this time last year), stop counting nosocomial covid and let all those people who can live their lives to do so.

I'm not sure how much clearer the failure of the current approach has to be before the penny drops.

– millions of cancer screens not done – the many asymptomatic but curable cancers detected every year through screening will now be missed until established and symptomatic and less curable.

– fewer GP referrals for suspected cancer – patients simply aren’t presenting with symptoms, they have been too successfully terrified.

– more people dying at home – patients with e.g. heart attacks, strokes, breathing problems, again too frightened to go to hospital.

– unemployment and poverty increasing.

– children missing out on their education and play.

– and all of us denied the activities we look forward to, to sustain us, e.g. parties, holidays, gatherings, friendship groups and anything that amounts to a normal life.

(10-12-2020, 09:13 PM)Shabby Russian Wrote:

(10-12-2020, 05:56 PM)billybassett Wrote:

(10-12-2020, 03:31 PM)Shabby Russian Wrote:

(10-12-2020, 11:55 AM)Protheroe Wrote:

(10-12-2020, 11:15 AM)billybassett Wrote: Hopefully the tide will turn to sanity at some point instead of the devastating hot air and bluster spouted as fact by Bojo and his pal Derek.

Don't hold your breath.

The only good that has come of this whole thing is that it's further exposed how useless and self serving polticians of all parties are.

The problem with  posts is i don't understand what it is you want to see happen.

On the face of it, it appears that you advocate a let the virus have free reign and bugger the consequences.

The trouble is i suspect when the consequences happen you will be running away from taking responsibility for them.

Fundamentally my disagreement with you is that not to take some action against the spread of covid, will lead to a situation where the NHS will be overwhelmed, and it will simply not have the necessary resources to meet the demand placed on it by the UK public. This will not just adversely affect covid patients, but all patients. 

My issue with BB and Proth on this, is that you don't seem concerned by this scenario at all.

Nobody wants to see rampant deaths obviously. It's an endemic virus though so it won't go away. So regardless of whether you want it to just plot it's course or lockdown it doesn't matter.. I for one would rather we not lockdown, scrap the PCR test that's so flawed as to not to be useable, stop conflating flu and covid, stop protecting the NHS at all costs (by the way 20000 more beds available in hospitals than this time last year), stop counting nosocomial covid and let all those people who can live their lives to do so.

I'm not sure how much clearer the failure of the current approach has to be before the penny drops.

– millions of cancer screens not done – the many asymptomatic but curable cancers detected every year through screening will now be missed until established and symptomatic and less curable.

– fewer GP referrals for suspected cancer – patients simply aren’t presenting with symptoms, they have been too successfully terrified.

– more people dying at home – patients with e.g. heart attacks, strokes, breathing problems, again too frightened to go to hospital.

– unemployment and poverty increasing.

– children missing out on their education and play.

– and all of us denied the activities we look forward to, to sustain us, e.g. parties, holidays, gatherings, friendship groups and anything that amounts to a normal life.

So in short your in favour of people who have a very pressing need for medical care from the NHS not getting it. The implication from your post is that you would rather not see the NHS deal with covid at any level . Just leave them at home and if they die well that's too sad.


Because the resources of the NHS are limited, if we let this rip, then doctors, not you, will be forced to choose between which patients they give urgent medical care to and which they don't 

And that won't be just a decision that is confined to covid patients . It may be they have to choose between the patient who can't breathe and the one that has just had a heart attack or the one that has sustained severe injuries in a RTA etc. 

We need to suppress the virus as much as is possible, so that those patients who need other forms of treatment whether it be cancer screening , organ transplants etc can still receive them. Something that won't be able to happen if all the NHS resources have to be diverted to dealing with very ill covid patients. But i forgot you don't think they should be treated at all.

(10-13-2020, 08:57 AM)The liquidator Wrote: Might as well say it some on here me included have had a go at the tories of following the science and not thinking for themselves....... With this 3 tier system they have ignored the science as they wanted a full lock down 3 weeks ago and have tried to keep the economy going....... You just can't please anyone and everyone.

Let's be honest whoever is in charge tories God forbid Labour we would be in the same hole you can't account for stupidity of  some of our society..... The mass gatherings in paiment Square.  BLM protest, going to crowded beaches and anti mask wearing and those environmental wankers..... There lies the real problem.

(10-13-2020, 09:14 AM)JOK Wrote:

(10-13-2020, 08:57 AM)The liquidator Wrote: Might as well say it some on here me included have had a go at the tories of following the science and not thinking for themselves....... With this 3 tier system they have ignored the science as they wanted a full lock down 3 weeks ago and have tried to keep the economy going....... You just can't please anyone and everyone.

Let's be honest whoever is in charge tories God forbid Labour we would be in the same hole you can't account for stupidity of  some of our society..... The mass gatherings in paiment Square.  BLM protest, going to crowded beaches and anti mask wearing and those environmental wankers..... There lies the real problem.

Can't believe I'm doing this But:  +1

It doesn't matter how good the 'Track and Trace' system is if people give false details, refuse to answer the phone calls or ignore the instruction to isolate when advised, as they have.