RE: Self Employed

[Derek Hardballs]

Don't worry about him Dekka, he's just pissed off that the things we predicted with Brexit are starting to happen and we haven't even left yet. He won't admit to being wrong so he gets aggressive and pretends to be on the windup.

I'm not on a wind up what's stopping them going in fields and topping up their income for their families that's what's what socialism is all about .....help the poor .

It must have been a massive poop they did in your helmet. 

Are all freelancers socialists then?

[Ossian]

Can’t all those apparently downtrodden salt of the earth Brexit voters who lost their jobs (hmm) to ‘all them foreigners coming over ere takken ar jobs? Now get those jobs they had been so cruelly denied and really wanted?

Different demographics, Derek: the well paid jobs in coal, steel, shipbuilding, petrochemicals and the like - the ones which largely disappeared in the mid 80s - they were the ones stolen by Romanian plasterers sometime around 2003/4. 

I've had all of this explained to me by family members in the north-east, to the point where I no longer argue. Which leaves them believing they've won, and I can live with that.

[baggy1]

No takers, flying in Romanians to do it for them. Going to be a problem getting unskilled workers to pick them from next year.

Why? We managed perfectly well importing seasonal Romanian workers before Romania joined the EU. Are you mad?

I'm not mad - one of the key tenants of the Brexit Brigade was to stop the influx of foreign workers and provide work for good ol' English lads and lasses. Turns out those lads and lasses can't be arsed so we need to import low skilled workers. Are you suffering from memory loss?

[The liquidator]

A agency has a contract with the Romanians to bring them in others have applied for the work and was refused as they said it was full ......thank me later .

[Protheroe]

No takers, flying in Romanians to do it for them. Going to be a problem getting unskilled workers to pick them from next year.

Why? We managed perfectly well importing seasonal Romanian workers before Romania joined the EU. Are you mad?

I'm not mad - one of the key tenants of the Brexit Brigade was to stop the influx of foreign workers and provide work for good ol' English lads and lasses. Turns out those lads and lasses can't be arsed so we need to import low skilled workers. Are you suffering from memory loss?

No, you're mad. I'm one of the Brexit Brigade, and one of the key tenets* of my argument is to end the type of exploitation suffered by seasonal agricultural workers encouraged by FoM. If a business can only survive by importing labour on poverty wages from overseas with Hellish living conditions - then it oughtn't be in business.

The rancid arguments from Remainers about FoM generally revolve around the supply of cheap and plentiful labour for shitty employers.

[baggy1]

The arguments for freedom of movement generally involves being able to work wherever you like around Europe in the best paying jobs. Many of my colleagues work in Paris, Luxembourg, Munich and Geneva because they had / have the option available easily.

European Nurses, Care Workers, Doctors, Lab Technicians and the rest come to the UK because they can under freedom of movement - without them we really will be right royally fucked.

Do you really think that the wages are a problem for fruit pickers, or that it doesn't matter what wages are being paid - 1stly we have the lowest unemployment numbers in our lifetime, and secondly those not working don't appear to want to get off their arse and do the work. Your logic dictates that farms should basically pay more to workers, which puts up the prices for the farmers, but as they are all supplying the multinationals who screw them into the ground they cannot raise the selling price. And even if by some form of miracle Tesco et al decided that they would pay more we'd all moan that the price of fruit and veg has gone up and we'll just get some of that stuff imported from Spain.

[strawman]

The arguments for freedom of movement generally involves being able to work wherever you like around Europe in the best paying jobs. Many of my colleagues work in Paris, Luxembourg, Munich and Geneva because they had / have the option available easily.

European Nurses, Care Workers, Doctors, Lab Technicians and the rest come to the UK because they can under freedom of movement - without them we really will be right royally fucked.

Do you really think that the wages are a problem for fruit pickers, or that it doesn't matter what wages are being paid - 1stly we have the lowest unemployment numbers in our lifetime, and secondly those not working don't appear to want to get off their arse and do the work. Your logic dictates that farms should basically pay more to workers, which puts up the prices for the farmers, but as they are all supplying the multinationals who screw them into the ground they cannot raise the selling price. And even if by some form of miracle Tesco et al decided that they would pay more we'd all moan that the price of fruit and veg has gone up and we'll just get some of that stuff imported from Spain.

Speaking of Spain - it would appear that shit employers are not unique to the UK, but seem to be rife in the fruit and veg industry

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-euro...you-re-out

[The liquidator]

The arguments for freedom of movement generally involves being able to work wherever you like around Europe in the best paying jobs. Many of my colleagues work in Paris, Luxembourg, Munich and Geneva because they had / have the option available easily.

European Nurses, Care Workers, Doctors, Lab Technicians and the rest come to the UK because they can under freedom of movement - without them we really will be right royally fucked.

Do you really think that the wages are a problem for fruit pickers, or that it doesn't matter what wages are being paid - 1stly we have the lowest unemployment numbers in our lifetime, and secondly those not working don't appear to want to get off their arse and do the work. Your logic dictates that farms should basically pay more to workers, which puts up the prices for the farmers, but as they are all supplying the multinationals who screw them into the ground they cannot raise the selling price. And even if by some form of miracle Tesco et al decided that they would pay more we'd all moan that the price of fruit and veg has gone up and we'll just get some of that stuff imported from Spain.

So your agreeing  that foreign workers are being exploited by these farmers and you agree with it ...

[baggy1]

There's a difference between me saying 'Your logic dictates that farms should pay more to workers' and you reading that as 'foreign workers are being exploited'

Let me ask you a straight question - do you believe that farmers are exploiting workers? and so you can see where I am heading on this the next question is why haven't the government done something about it. It isn't as if they are hiding away and bringing them in on bootlegger boats, they flew them in only last week with government support!

Or do you actually think that the 'migrant worker being abused' and good ol Boris is looking after the little people again is the real world. I haven't seen this on the side of a bus yet so I can't comment on its accuracy.

[FenlandBoing]

Don't go assuming all fruit pickers / land workers are automatically poorly paid and exploited. In the Fens there are plenty of unskilled immigrants who have come over from various east european countries. Many have worked hard, lived frugally, saved up and then moved into other industries and settled here. Now it's the turn of the Romanians who have been coming in relatively large numbers the past couple of years. Field workers can earn over £24k over 6-8 months of the year. Some of the farm camps have their own social clubs, swimming pool, gym etc. But there are other companies that rip them off with poor accommodations, supplement charges for transport etc - there are always people who will exploit others in every industry i would think?. I would think on the whole though, the jobs offered over the past decade or more has enabled many thousands of people previously living in poverty to be lifted out of it -for those that have come over from Eastern Europe at least.