So where is the help for the self employed and renters?

[ChamonixBaggie]

I would presume that because freelancers/gig economy workers income is fluid, sporadic and subject to peaks and troughs then the logistics of working out a flat 80% for each one of them would be impossible. A set monthly salary obviously makes this much easier. I think its a stretch to suggest that anyone has a specific grudge against the self-employed compared to contracted employees.

What is it you think the government should do for freelancers and how do they go about it?

The self-employed will get Universal Credit (whether UC is fit for purpose is a different question to which the answer is obviously NO but hey ho)and so will hopefully not starve during what is a global crisis period where normal rules are suspended and can then hopefully resume their normal work once the crisis is over. There is also a lot of temp work going at the minute and I know a couple of mates who have applied to Tesco to keep the wolf from the door. Needs must.

I hate the Tories as much as the next person with a shred of human conscience but they're doing much better than I thought they would during this crisis. Nowhere near quick or far enough, but better than I thought. This is fairly faint praise given that I thought they'd essentially do nothing other than bail out massive corporations if required.

In France I'm getting a 50% salary reduction and going on chomage partielle to make it up to 80% for 2 months which means some belt tightening. My GF is self-employed and Macron has also announced that she can apply for chomage as well, which she wouldn't usually be able to.

[baggy1]

The self employed one is simple - take their last 3 years tax returns and average out their profit figure - pay them 80% of that. If they've dodged tax by lowering or hiding their income or inflating their expenses then that's their problem and something to learn from in the future.

[TETLEY74]

The self employed one is simple - take their last 3 years tax returns and average out their profit figure - pay them 80% of that. If they've dodged tax by lowering or hiding their income or inflating their expenses then that's their problem and something to learn from in the future.

Good call Baggy1.

[ChamonixBaggie]

Yes that seems like a reasonable solution, though still a logistical nightmare. Especially for those with multiple jobs/sources of income. No easy answers to any of this unfortunately.

[JOK]

Derek these are life choices that the self employed have chosen to do so they can make financial decisions that suits them .  I was self employed and it did have benefits with me demanding a higher wage ......I went down the route that I'm on less money but more stability .....I know blokes who are on zero hour contracts who are on £200 to £280 quid a day ....now they are bleating that if they get laid off they are getting no help .....they made the choice to demand a higher wage ......I really feel sorry for the blokes who are on minimum wage I'm sure they will get help  ....not everyone are going to be happy it's a impossible task .

Interesting to see who the biggest advocates / apologists for throwing millions of low paid freelancers and gig economy workers under the financial bus are. How is it fair that the government can offer proper financial support to those who work for companies of all sizes but not those who don’t but still pay tax, work just as hard and in the good time’s with less security? 

Following this nonsensical logic If you work for a company that can’t survive this, those are the risk you take in an unprecedented pandemic and you should only get universal discredit.

I suspect I know the motivation of the governments lack of proportionate help but perhaps that’s for another day.

I hope that government rethinks it’s stance and I’m forced to suffer the same posters indignation I should have even brought the subject up.

Freelancer
|'freeˌlaan(t)‑su|
A writer or artist who sells services to different employers without a long-term contract
They are still able to work from home as they would usually . I assume you mean someone who works freelance. (Sorry, just my usual pedantry)

Being self employed doesn’t necessarily equate to “the poorest in society” or “millions of low paid”. Within five doors of our house there are two self employed blokes. (One a jobbing builder, the other an electrical contractor) Both houses have two him & her’s, one year old or newer Chelsea tractors outside and one has two other cars for their Student daughters. Whom, I imagine, did not pay for them themselves. Their wives also work. The couple next door are both employees. The wife in food retail and he in the leather industry and he has been on short time working for over a year. They live in the smallest type of house in the street and have only one ageing small car on the drive. If his job goes he will find it virtually impossible to get another to match his skills. So, which are the “poorest” or “lowest paid”, year in year out?
Self employed builders, plumbers, painters & decorators etc. can still work and if they are sick or self isolating they can claim SSP, or if they have no work, Universal credit, straight away which would not be the case normally. (They could have claimed ESA providing they had paid enough National Insurance.)
Most jobs done by the self employed still exist or will resume after this highly exceptional circumstance has died down, if an employee’s firm folds their jobs will not be there to go back to. 
I don’t agree with all of Liq’s posts but he is correct. Self employment is, for most, a life choice. Those that choose it are content to accept the benefits when times are good for them but must accept that there will be bad times too. 
Zero hours contracts are a different and in some ways more complicated situation. Should they exist at all? You can see the benefits for the employer and even some of those working on them are happy to do so. I’m naturally inclined against them. Employers should at least pay the contracted person’s full minimum Nat Insurance as a sort of retainer each month.
I’m not an “advocate or apologists” Dekka but must pick you up on the use of the term “lack of proportion ”. As 85% of workers are employees and contribute, as pointed out in a previous exchange, 98.8% to GDP (‘18/‘19) Concentrating on that sector which will be overwhelmingly vital to recovering the economy, is not disproportionate. 
“Needs of my the many...” to quote a fictional character.
Constant nitpicking and snipping due to you pathological, negative obsession with the Tories is not helping, desirous or indeed edifying.

[Derek Hardballs]

Derek these are life choices that the self employed have chosen to do so they can make financial decisions that suits them .  I was self employed and it did have benefits with me demanding a higher wage ......I went down the route that I'm on less money but more stability .....I know blokes who are on zero hour contracts who are on £200 to £280 quid a day ....now they are bleating that if they get laid off they are getting no help .....they made the choice to demand a higher wage ......I really feel sorry for the blokes who are on minimum wage I'm sure they will get help  ....not everyone are going to be happy it's a impossible task .

Interesting to see who the biggest advocates / apologists for throwing millions of low paid freelancers and gig economy workers under the financial bus are. How is it fair that the government can offer proper financial support to those who work for companies of all sizes but not those who don’t but still pay tax, work just as hard and in the good time’s with less security? 

Following this nonsensical logic If you work for a company that can’t survive this, those are the risk you take in an unprecedented pandemic and you should only get universal discredit.

I suspect I know the motivation of the governments lack of proportionate help but perhaps that’s for another day.

I hope that government rethinks it’s stance and I’m forced to suffer the same posters indignation I should have even brought the subject up.

Freelancer
|'freeˌlaan(t)‑su|
A writer or artist who sells services to different employers without a long-term contract
They are still able to work from home as they would usually . I assume you mean someone who works freelance. (Sorry, just my usual pedantry)

Being self employed doesn’t necessarily equate to “the poorest in society” or “millions of low paid”. Within five doors of our house there are two self employed blokes. (One a jobbing builder, the other an electrical contractor) Both houses have two him & her’s, one year old or newer Chelsea tractors outside and one has two other cars for their Student daughters. Whom, I imagine, did not pay for them themselves. Their wives also work. The couple next door are both employees. The wife in food retail and he in the leather industry and he has been on short time working for over a year. They live in the smallest type of house in the street and have only one ageing small car on the drive. If his job goes he will find it virtually impossible to get another to match his skills. So, which are the “poorest” or “lowest paid”, year in year out?
Self employed builders, plumbers, painters & decorators etc. can still work and if they are sick or self isolating they can claim SSP, or if they have no work, Universal credit, straight away which would not be the case normally. (They could have claimed ESA providing they had paid enough National Insurance.)
Most jobs done by the self employed still exist or will resume after this highly exceptional circumstance has died down, if an employee’s firm folds their jobs will not be there to go back to. 
I don’t agree with all of Liq’s posts but he is correct. Self employment is, for most, a life choice. Those that choose it are content to accept the benefits when times are good for them but must accept that there will be bad times too. 
Zero hours contracts are a different and in some ways more complicated situation. Should they exist at all? You can see the benefits for the employer and even some of those working on them are happy to do so. I’m naturally inclined against them. Employers should at least pay the contracted person’s full minimum Nat Insurance as a sort of retainer each month.
I’m not an “advocate or apologists” Dekka but must pick you up on the use of the term “lack of proportion ”. As 85% of workers are employees and contribute, as pointed out in a previous exchange, 98.8% to GDP (‘18/‘19) Concentrating on that sector which will be overwhelmingly vital to recovering the economy, is not disproportionate. 
“Needs of my the many...” to quote a fictional character.
Constant nitpicking and snipping due to you pathological, negative obsession with the Tories is not helping, desirous or indeed edifying.

Whatever you say tbh I think the ignore button beckons. I have friends whose work has completely stopped and they are just supposed to suck it up whilst others who work no harder or longer or pay less into the system get 80% of their wages paid. If you don’t want people to be bitter or question decisions then be fair to everyone and given that this is one of the main talking points politically today I don’t think that has happened. Working for a company is also a lifestyle choice that following the same logic if it goes to the wall that’s just tough and you get another job. That’s all that has happened on a smaller scale with individual self employed there is no logical difference.

[The liquidator]

The self employed one is simple - take their last 3 years tax returns and average out their profit figure - pay them 80% of that. If they've dodged tax by lowering or hiding their income or inflating their expenses then that's their problem and something to learn from in the future.

All of them fiddle the tax system who I work with that's why they are self employed

[JOK]

Interesting to see who the biggest advocates / apologists for throwing millions of low paid freelancers and gig economy workers under the financial bus are. 
I suspect I know the motivation of the governments lack of proportionate help but perhaps that’s for another day.
I hope that government rethinks it’s stance and I’m forced to suffer the same posters indignation I should have even brought the subject up.

Being self employed doesn’t necessarily equate to “the poorest in society” or “millions of low paid”. Within five doors of our house there are two self employed blokes. (One a jobbing builder, the other an electrical contractor) Both houses have two him & her’s, one year old or newer Chelsea tractors outside and one has two other cars for their Student daughters. Whom, I imagine, did not pay for them themselves. Their wives also work. The couple next door are both employees. The wife in food retail and he in the leather industry and he has been on short time working for over a year. They live in the smallest type of house in the street and have only one ageing small car on the drive. If his job goes he will find it virtually impossible to get another to match his skills. So, which are the “poorest” or “lowest paid”, year in year out?
Self employed builders, plumbers, painters & decorators etc. can still work and if they are sick or self isolating they can claim SSP, or if they have no work, Universal credit, straight away which would not be the case normally. (They could have claimed ESA providing they had paid enough National Insurance.)
Most jobs done by the self employed still exist or will resume after this highly exceptional circumstance has died down, if an employee’s firm folds their jobs will not be there to go back to. 
I don’t agree with all of Liq’s posts but he is correct. Self employment is, for most, a life choice. Those that choose it are content to accept the benefits when times are good for them but must accept that there will be bad times too. 
Zero hours contracts are a different and in some ways more complicated situation. Should they exist at all? You can see the benefits for the employer and even some of those working on them are happy to do so. I’m naturally inclined against them. Employers should at least pay the contracted person’s full minimum Nat Insurance as a sort of retainer each month.
I’m not an “advocate or apologists” Dekka but must pick you up on the use of the term “lack of proportion ”. As 85% of workers are employees and contribute, as pointed out in a previous exchange, 98.8% to GDP (‘18/‘19) Concentrating on that sector which will be overwhelmingly vital to recovering the economy, is not disproportionate. 
“Needs of my the many...” to quote a fictional character.
Constant nitpicking and snipping due to you pathological, negative obsession with the Tories is not helping, desirous or indeed edifying.

Whatever you say tbh I think the ignore button beckons. I have friends whose work has completely stopped and they are just supposed to suck it up whilst others who work no harder or longer or pay less into the system get 80% of their wages paid. If you don’t want people to be bitter or question decisions then be fair to everyone and given that this is one of the main talking points politically today I don’t think that has happened. Working for a company is also a lifestyle choice that following the same logic if it goes to the wall that’s just tough and you get another job. That’s all that has happened on a smaller scale with individual self employed there is no logical difference.

Do not have the courage of your convictions to have them questioned then?

It’s not the same logic. As I said, if a company goes under jobs cease to exist and the capacity to produce products also.

[The liquidator]

Can you read properly I said all the ones I work with ......I've been self employed dekka I really hope things work out for you and your family .petty squabling doesnt help anybody ......good luck derek

[Derek Hardballs]

Interesting to see who the biggest advocates / apologists for throwing millions of low paid freelancers and gig economy workers under the financial bus are. 
I suspect I know the motivation of the governments lack of proportionate help but perhaps that’s for another day.
I hope that government rethinks it’s stance and I’m forced to suffer the same posters indignation I should have even brought the subject up.

Being self employed doesn’t necessarily equate to “the poorest in society” or “millions of low paid”. Within five doors of our house there are two self employed blokes. (One a jobbing builder, the other an electrical contractor) Both houses have two him & her’s, one year old or newer Chelsea tractors outside and one has two other cars for their Student daughters. Whom, I imagine, did not pay for them themselves. Their wives also work. The couple next door are both employees. The wife in food retail and he in the leather industry and he has been on short time working for over a year. They live in the smallest type of house in the street and have only one ageing small car on the drive. If his job goes he will find it virtually impossible to get another to match his skills. So, which are the “poorest” or “lowest paid”, year in year out?
Self employed builders, plumbers, painters & decorators etc. can still work and if they are sick or self isolating they can claim SSP, or if they have no work, Universal credit, straight away which would not be the case normally. (They could have claimed ESA providing they had paid enough National Insurance.)
Most jobs done by the self employed still exist or will resume after this highly exceptional circumstance has died down, if an employee’s firm folds their jobs will not be there to go back to. 
I don’t agree with all of Liq’s posts but he is correct. Self employment is, for most, a life choice. Those that choose it are content to accept the benefits when times are good for them but must accept that there will be bad times too. 
Zero hours contracts are a different and in some ways more complicated situation. Should they exist at all? You can see the benefits for the employer and even some of those working on them are happy to do so. I’m naturally inclined against them. Employers should at least pay the contracted person’s full minimum Nat Insurance as a sort of retainer each month.
I’m not an “advocate or apologists” Dekka but must pick you up on the use of the term “lack of proportion ”. As 85% of workers are employees and contribute, as pointed out in a previous exchange, 98.8% to GDP (‘18/‘19) Concentrating on that sector which will be overwhelmingly vital to recovering the economy, is not disproportionate. 
“Needs of my the many...” to quote a fictional character.
Constant nitpicking and snipping due to you pathological, negative obsession with the Tories is not helping, desirous or indeed edifying.

Whatever you say tbh I think the ignore button beckons. I have friends whose work has completely stopped and they are just supposed to suck it up whilst others who work no harder or longer or pay less into the system get 80% of their wages paid. If you don’t want people to be bitter or question decisions then be fair to everyone and given that this is one of the main talking points politically today I don’t think that has happened. Working for a company is also a lifestyle choice that following the same logic if it goes to the wall that’s just tough and you get another job. That’s all that has happened on a smaller scale with individual self employed there is no logical difference.

Do not have the courage of your convictions to have them questioned then?

It’s not the same logic. As I said, if a company goes under jobs cease to exist and the capacity to produce products also.

So the self employed don’t produce anything? Arf. 

I don’t mind you questioning things but you’re a tad eager a tad obsessed with me.

---

Can you read properly I said all the ones I work with ......I've been self employed dekka  I really hope things work out for you and your family  .petty squabling doesnt help anybody ......good luck derek

Liq I really do like you dude as a person that’s the difference when I disagree we can walk away from it. I wish your family all the best to. At this time I really couldn’t give a flying fuck who is in power as long as they do the right thing for everyone.