Libertarianism isn’t Conservative

[Derek Hardballs]

Taking massive risks with the economy based simply on ideology is not traditional Conservatism. Abandoning people to the whims of the market is not what a political party or government is for. It’s a failed, selfish, binary, joyless outlook on life. Those who support it seem to think that theirs and others worth is based entirely on their potential to earn money. Whilst taking great satisfaction in taking away opportunities and help for others unless they can afford to pay.  

Wishing to work in careers that don’t reward huge wages is deemed to be lazy or alien to their understanding of the world. Carers, Nurses etc are looked upon as naive do-gooders who should ‘just get a better job’ if they want a decent standard of living. So lacking in emotional intellect, empathy, or even joined up fiscal reality. There is only the pursuit of money that is deemed worthy of merit and support, those that choose a different path are weak, foolish, lazy for doing so and they should be punished for not sharing the same ‘values’ as their Libertarian fellow citizens. 

Someone on here recently said that the Conservative party was tin eared, well yes it is, but so is the person saying so. There is no desire for libertarian values to be thrust upon the country or it’s people, there is no demand for people to live in a society obsessed with the pursuit of money as it’s main aim, there is little to suggest that most people want to punish the most vulnerable with punitive anti-welfare reductions to support tax cuts for the richest people in the country, there is no mandate to create zones where normal standards of governance are ripped up so large companies can ‘invest’ free of responsibilities and accountability. 

One look at the state of this country should tell you exactly where those murky think tanks, and  Libertarian ‘disruptors’ in the Conservative party have taken us. The argument that the ideology will work but just not now is nonsense. The U.K. is not a business it’s a collection of people, a society, most contribute to the country in some way. You do not create a better and more prosperous country be that financially, socially or culturally by creating a winner takes all attitude. If those who advocate libertarianism cannot recognise that we are all interdependent on each other for success then they aren’t as bright as they think no matter how much their bank account may say otherwise.

[SW4Baggie]

Damn that’s a good post.
I don’t pretend to be even remotely as clued up as you on these matters Derek, but you’ve summed up my reasons for starting Spanish residency proceedings. Their politics are are from perfect, but at least it’s sunny.

[baggy1]

Great post Dekka

[Tom Joad]

Exactly true. I keep hearing how terrible the 70s were. Bollix, they were great days. I left school to a plethora of opportunities. If I had been studious, then there was the chance to go to college and university.  All of this went to hell when Thatcher was appointed. From there on in society has dissolved into selfishness. The theft of our national assets, or privatisation as it was called, then the sale (without replacement) of council housing stock. The cutbacks that deprive our libraries, swimming pools, the sale of our sports fields, police stations and so on. Then there is the wonder of outsourcing. You know, when the taxpayer had to take over prisons that were failing gloriously. The failing private academies, don't forget the Probation Service (Just cost us the 500M-thanks Chris Grayling).  Stagecoach, Virgin, Carillion, that one's a beauty, paying out more in bonuses than they put into the employees pension scheme. Guess who picks up the balance? Interserve, they crashed and burned while the CEO was given 500K bonus for four months work, the four months before they crashed. I've forgotten loads but I'll chuck in Track and Trace before signing off. A resounding failure from Serco (with a huge record of previous failures), and headed by Dido Harding, a Tory party peer and contributor.
Which part of that is traditional Conservatism, and which is libertarian? Personally, I think it is criminal, bordering on treasonable. But maybe I'm just touchy.

[Borin' Baggie]

Economic Libertarianism is an extremist ideology, it needs to be looked at in the same way Communism is.

It's a bastardisation of liberal economics to the extreme point and it thrives on ignoring social duty and positive liberties in favour of maximising negative economic liberties.

[baggy1]

Exactly true. I keep hearing how terrible the 70s were. Bollix, they were great days. I left school to a plethora of opportunities. If I had been studious, then there was the chance to go to college and university.  All of this went to hell when Thatcher was appointed. From there on in society has dissolved into selfishness. The theft of our national assets, or privatisation as it was called, then the sale (without replacement) of council housing stock. The cutbacks that deprive our libraries, swimming pools, the sale of our sports fields, police stations and so on. Then there is the wonder of outsourcing. You know, when the taxpayer had to take over prisons that were failing gloriously. The failing private academies, don't forget the Probation Service (Just cost us the 500M-thanks Chris Grayling).  Stagecoach, Virgin, Carillion, that one's a beauty, paying out more in bonuses than they put into the employees pension scheme. Guess who picks up the balance? Interserve, they crashed and burned while the CEO was given 500K bonus for four months work, the four months before they crashed. I've forgotten loads but I'll chuck in Track and Trace before signing off. A resounding failure from Serco (with a huge record of previous failures), and headed by Dido Harding, a Tory party peer and contributor.
Which part of that is traditional Conservatism, and which is libertarian? Personally, I think it is criminal, bordering on treasonable. But maybe I'm just touchy.

Yes but what about selling the gold off eh?

[Protheroe]

There's nothing I like more than a bleeding heart lefty with a victim complex opining on what is and what isn't Conservatism when Conservative governments in the last couple of years have spunked tens of £billions in untargeted support to individuals, families and businesses.

That's not really Conservatism in my book. And it's certainly not libertarianism.

[Tom Joad]

There's nothing I like more than a bleeding heart lefty with a victim complex opining on what is and what isn't Conservatism when Conservative governments in the last couple of years have spunked tens of £billions in untargeted support to individuals, families and businesses.

That's not really Conservatism in my book. And it's certainly not libertarianism.

They've certainly wasted plenty since they found that magic money tree. Luckily, they gave their friends first dibs.

[Protheroe]

Then everybody on this board is their friend. There weren't many dissenting voices on here about furlough or SEISS.

Keep trotting out the usual tropes without being self aware enough to admit that you've all been sucking on the teat of the Tory-state why don't you?

You (and me) did in 2008, you (and me) are with energy support now.

We're all complicit in being unable to face the unaffordable truth.

[Derek Hardballs]

There's nothing I like more than a bleeding heart lefty with a victim complex opining on what is and what isn't Conservatism when Conservative governments in the last couple of years have spunked tens of £billions in untargeted support to individuals, families and businesses.

That's not really Conservatism in my book. And it's certainly not libertarianism.

There’s nothing I like more than seeing a Tory / Libertarian / Brexiteer skulking away from two huge poops he’s left on peoples doorstep pretending it’s nothing to do with him.