Schools

[Derek Hardballs]

It’s either safe or it isn’t. Just reducing the distance because it’s inconvenient and impractical isn’t really a solution. What do the experts advocate? Not the VoteLeave Party they are too busy planning to sell Marmite to Oz.

Must you bring bloody Brexit into every thread?
And you constantly keep making that stupid assertion. 
184 Conservative MPs voted to remain!  Including the vast majority of the cabinet.
139 conservative MPs voted to leave.  (4 undeclared)
How does that make them the leave party?  At least 480 MPs voted to remain. At least 77% of MPs voted to remain. No main political party campaigned for leave.

There was only one ‘Leave’ party and they only had one MP. 
Again, the principal of democracy and percentages eludes you.

Well, as only 24% of MP elected in the last GE are sitting for the first time and that will include new Cons elected in the ‘Blue Wall’ and new SNP members, I would imagine there still quite a large proportion of the Remainers still in the House.  Not quite a “purge” is it. 
The only significant Con to have the Whip removed was that ‘brothel Creeper’ and that not until just before the last election.
Still, I suppose, anecdotally you can say ALL the remainers were purged. 

Who are making the decisions? Johnson, Gove, Patel, Raab and apparently an unelected advisor. Who purged their own party of many sensible and respected centrist Conservative MPs? How many fvthe new MPs are believers in Brexit most I would imagine?

This was my reply so please show me where I said...  anecdotally you can say ALL the remainers were purged? I can see why you’re getting confused as you’re mixing up sensible and respected with remainers the two do have certain similarities. 

The Voteleave team are running the party and to pretend otherwise is to be deliberately obtuse.

[Protheroe]

The points however is it ok for teachers to be possibly be exposed to increased risk as it’s simply not possible to accommodate the 2m rule? That is not the teachers fault. So why are they and unions getting the blame for wanting to ensure their own safety?

Because the fucking unions want "100% safety". You cannot guarantee you'll be 100% safe getting out of bed in the morning - it's an extreme and ludicrous position to take.

[Derek Hardballs]

The points however is it ok for teachers to be possibly be exposed to increased risk as it’s simply not possible to accommodate the 2m rule? That is not the teachers fault. So why are they and unions getting the blame for wanting to ensure their own safety?

Because the fucking unions want "100% safety". You cannot guarantee you'll be 100% safe getting out of bed in the morning - it's an extreme and ludicrous position to take.

Is there a quote from a member of the unions that supports this?

[igorbalis]

The points however is it ok for teachers to be possibly be exposed to increased risk as it’s simply not possible to accommodate the 2m rule? That is not the teachers fault. So why are they and unions getting the blame for wanting to ensure their own safety?

Because the fucking unions want "100% safety". You cannot guarantee you'll be 100% safe getting out of bed in the morning - it's an extreme and ludicrous position to take.

Is there a quote from a member of the unions that supports this?

The unions are protecting their members interests that's fair enough - but proth is right, whilst I have sympathy for any teachers who are high risk, i.e. over 50 underlying health issues, these are surely in the minority, and the rest should be back at work as asap.

 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53037702

[baggy1]

The points however is it ok for teachers to be possibly be exposed to increased risk as it’s simply not possible to accommodate the 2m rule? That is not the teachers fault. So why are they and unions getting the blame for wanting to ensure their own safety?

Because the fucking unions want "100% safety". You cannot guarantee you'll be 100% safe getting out of bed in the morning - it's an extreme and ludicrous position to take.

No they don't

[Shabby Russian]

The points however is it ok for teachers to be possibly be exposed to increased risk as it’s simply not possible to accommodate the 2m rule? That is not the teachers fault. So why are they and unions getting the blame for wanting to ensure their own safety?

Because the fucking unions want "100% safety". You cannot guarantee you'll be 100% safe getting out of bed in the morning - it's an extreme and ludicrous position to take.

But not the welsh teaching unions or is it possible the Welsh Govt have taken a more sensible approach to education and have devised a strategy where all year groups can attend school for a period of time during the week.

It may be politically astute for the Govt to try and apportion blame to the unions for the education shambles in England, but it doesn't make for good government.

[Borin' Baggie]

The points however is it ok for teachers to be possibly be exposed to increased risk as it’s simply not possible to accommodate the 2m rule? That is not the teachers fault. So why are they and unions getting the blame for wanting to ensure their own safety?

Because the fucking unions want "100% safety". You cannot guarantee you'll be 100% safe getting out of bed in the morning - it's an extreme and ludicrous position to take.

But not the welsh teaching unions or is it possible the Welsh Govt have taken a more sensible approach to education and have devised a strategy where all year groups can attend school for a period of time during the week.

It may be politically astute for the Govt to try and apportion on the education shambles in England, but it doesn't make for good government.

Or Northern Ireland.

Based on the fact that two devolved governments have made arrangements with the teachers it seems pretty obvious that it isn't the unions that are causing the issues.

---

It’s either safe or it isn’t. Just reducing the distance because it’s inconvenient and impractical isn’t really a solution. What do the experts advocate? Not the VoteLeave Party they are too busy planning to sell Marmite to Oz.

Answer the question, how are you supposed to teach people while enforcing a 2 metre distance? Classrooms aren't big enough and there are nowhere near an appropriate number of staff.

As for what experts are saying, in a classroom environment it doesn't matter whether you're 30mm away or 10m away as the exposure times make the distance redundant.

As I’ve said if the rules for everyone else is 2m then why is it ok for schools to be a 1m? Either adjust it to 1m if it’s safe and base that decision on expert advice.

What you've said doesn't answer the question. How are you supposed to teach with a 2 metre distance?

And, as I have explained, expert advice on distance is irrelevant in classrooms due to exposure times so that argument doesn't make any sense. You can't compare the adequate legislation for shopping, where 2m will lead to a big drop in risk, to in schools, where it doesn't make a difference.

I never said it was practical I argued to the contrary on this very thread. I know it’s not, I have been in meetings that have spelt this out loud and clear with senior teachers. 

The points however is it ok for teachers to be possibly be exposed to increased risk as it’s simply not possible to accommodate the 2m rule? That is not the teachers fault. So why are they and unions getting the blame for wanting to ensure their own safety?

The point is that the 2m rule is redundant. Schools cannot accommodate the 2m rule as it is entirely impractical and the 2m rule wouldn't do anything in a school environment due to the exposure times. When schools come back they're not going to adhere to a 2m rule because it's pointless.

As for the unions getting the blame, seems pretty obvious to me that the issue is that the Conservative government can't bare being criticised for their screw ups so are trying to deflect the blame onto their old space goat.

[JOK]

It’s either safe or it isn’t. Just reducing the distance because it’s inconvenient and impractical isn’t really a solution. What do the experts advocate? Not the VoteLeave Party they are too busy planning to sell Marmite to Oz.

Must you bring bloody Brexit into every thread?
And you constantly keep making that stupid assertion. 
184 Conservative MPs voted to remain!  Including the vast majority of the cabinet.
139 conservative MPs voted to leave.  (4 undeclared)
How does that make them the leave party?  At least 480 MPs voted to remain. At least 77% of MPs voted to remain. No main political party campaigned for leave.

There was only one ‘Leave’ party and they only had one MP. 
Again, the principal of democracy and percentages eludes you.

Well, as only 24% of MP elected in the last GE are sitting for the first time and that will include new Cons elected in the ‘Blue Wall’ and new SNP members, I would imagine there still quite a large proportion of the Remainers still in the House.  Not quite a “purge” is it. 
The only significant Con to have the Whip removed was that ‘brothel Creeper’ and that not until just before the last election.
Still, I suppose, anecdotally you can say ALL the remainers were purged. 

Who are making the decisions? Johnson, Gove, Patel, Raab and apparently an unelected advisor. Who purged their own party of many sensible and respected centrist Conservative MPs? How many fvthe new MPs are believers in Brexit most I would imagine?

This was my reply so please show me where I said...  anecdotally you can say ALL the remainers were purged? I can see why you’re getting confused as you’re mixing up sensible and respected with remainers the two do have certain similarities. 

The Voteleave team are running the party and to pretend otherwise is to be deliberately obtuse.

The anecdote re. comments was a cheeky aside as I know you prefer anecdotes rather than facts.
I’m afraid you are being “obtuse”. You claimed tied the Tory party with the epithet “Voteleave Party”. (I notice you’ve changed it to team now; clever but not clever enough) but you conveniently ignore the fact that the vast majority of Tory MPs sitting in this parliament were members at the time of the referendum. Figures show that the majority voted to remain. So that majority is still in the chamber. No party ran on the ‘Leave’ ticket. Sorry Dekka, not even the Conservatives, indeed, their leader was at the forefront of the remain campaign, so how can you call them the Voteleave Party? Again, despite your arrogant last sentence, “sensible and respected “ is subjective and personal opinion.

[CA Baggie]

It all seems quite simple.

There aren't enough classrooms or teachers in most schools to have bubbles of 15, especially when key worker children have a priority. The Government misled the people about this and are now trying to blame anyone they can.

Borin' Baggie seems to be the scientific expert that the distancing rules won't make any difference due to the time exposure so he should speak to SAGE and tell them.

The government can then scrap the distancing rulings that would eradicate the lack of classroom space. Their would still be a shortage of teachers due to shlelding rules etc but that could be overcome with bank\supply and maybe student teachers going in to school. If they're monitored properly they could provide a reasonable resource and be given extra reward, both financially and on their degree for helping out.

They'd still need staggered start times etc. unless we're proposing it's ok for 200-400 parents to all turn up together as it's simply not possible to 2-metre distance and all get in\out of the majority of schools.

We only now need to determine if the children can actually spread the disease...

Alternatively we could let the scientific advisors due their jobs properly, back them, tell the truth to parents (and not try and blame everyone else) and provide financial support to the schools to do so. I suppose school kids, teachers and Unions don't fund the party in the same way as big business (and the owners) do.

[The liquidator]

Get half the class in the morning and home school in the afternoon and vice versa