UK Covid death toll

[baggy1]

Be interested to hear your thoughts on the impact of the false-positives seeing as its wheeled out every time the anti-lockdown lot get chance?

I've said from the start that the testing programme that we have in place is a shambles. I had some symptoms a couple of months ago and got one of the home kits to do the test, I had no idea until then where my tonsils were (I always thought they were the bit hanging down in the middle) and trying to put a swab on them made me gag so badly I have no idea if I managed to do it or not. It's no surprise that any real reading of 'false positives' can sound reasonable.

When the government stopped the local PHEs doing drive through centres with nurses administering the test and outsourced it to people with minimal medical experience was when testing took a turn for the worse.

I've focussed on the hospital admission figures as the 1st alarm bell, and they are slowly starting to rise. That can't be disputed by any anti-lockdown lot without going full conspiracy theory on us.

[Derek Hardballs]

So what your saying is the vulnerable and those that care for them must isolate themselves until we have a vaccine?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

That’s what I thought keep them and their families inside so you can go and do anything you like!

[Protheroe]

So what your saying is the vulnerable and those that care for them must isolate themselves until we have a vaccine?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

That’s what I thought keep them and their families inside so you can go and do anything you like!

If it's the price of keeping the economy going and our kids educated then it's worth it.

[backsidebaggie]

So what your saying is the vulnerable and those that care for them must isolate themselves until we have a vaccine?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

That’s what I thought keep them and their families inside so you can go and do anything you like!

If it's the price of keeping the economy going and our kids educated then it's worth it.

It could also achieve more immunity in the population faster which may be helping Sweden as the only place in Europe that hasnt had a second wave yet. I’m not saying it’s definitely the case, god knows what the best plan is, but we can’t keep coming in and out of lockdown for a vaccine that might never come. If, and it’s still a big if, Sweden don’t get a second wave, it doesn’t half support letting the healthy population get Covid as it will kill so few of them, while protecting the old and vulnerable. Obviously this is bloody difficult to get right. But what isn’t?

[strawman]

So what your saying is the vulnerable and those that care for them must isolate themselves until we have a vaccine?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

That’s what I thought keep them and their families inside so you can go and do anything you like!

If it's the price of keeping the economy going and our kids educated then it's worth it.

So basically you want to imprison a section of the population, and yet in the past you have accused others of being authoritarian. Do you actually have any joined up thinking ?

[baggy1]

So what your saying is the vulnerable and those that care for them must isolate themselves until we have a vaccine?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

That’s what I thought keep them and their families inside so you can go and do anything you like!

If it's the price of keeping the economy going and our kids educated then it's worth it.

It could also achieve more immunity in the population faster which may be helping Sweden as the only place in Europe that hasnt had a second wave yet. I’m not saying it’s definitely the case, god knows what the best plan is, but we can’t keep coming in and out of lockdown for a vaccine that might never come. If, and it’s still a big if, Sweden don’t get a second wave, it doesn’t half support letting the healthy population get Covid as it will kill so few of them, while protecting the old and vulnerable. Obviously this is bloody difficult to get right. But what isn’t?

Oh FFS 

I wasn't even going to respond to this but over the past 14 days the cumulative number of covid cases across the EU by 100,000 of population puts Sweden in about the same position as Germany, Poland, Bulgaria, Norway and Lithuania. It puts them in a worse position than Finland and Latvia.

FFS Please, please, please can we stop using Sweden as a measurement of something that has succeeded, they haven't.

[Protheroe]

So what your saying is the vulnerable and those that care for them must isolate themselves until we have a vaccine?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

That’s what I thought keep them and their families inside so you can go and do anything you like!

If it's the price of keeping the economy going and our kids educated then it's worth it.

So basically you want to imprison a section of the population, and yet in the past you have accused others of being authoritarian. Do you actually have any joined up thinking ?

I'm perfectly sentient thank you. This is simply the concept of opportunity cost in sharp focus. If the economy cannot function, we cannot support the most vulnerable whilst they're isolating. If the vulnerable wish to take a full / partial part in society then that ought to be their personal choice, but if they choose to isolate they shouldn't automatically expect everybody else to cease normal life.

1.5 - 2 million people are at risk of losing their jobs. I don't hear a great deal of sympathy for them.

And all kids (including my own) need to be at school.

[Ted Maul]

If Covid can by stopped by us all leaving the pub an hour earlier then it's fucking thick.

[baggy1]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

That’s what I thought keep them and their families inside so you can go and do anything you like!

If it's the price of keeping the economy going and our kids educated then it's worth it.

So basically you want to imprison a section of the population, and yet in the past you have accused others of being authoritarian. Do you actually have any joined up thinking ?

I'm perfectly sentient thank you. This is simply the concept of opportunity cost in sharp focus. If the economy cannot function, we cannot support the most vulnerable whilst they're isolating. If the vulnerable wish to take a full / partial part in society then that ought to be their personal choice, but if they choose to isolate they shouldn't automatically expect everybody else to cease normal life.

1.5 - 2 million people are at risk of losing their jobs. I don't hear a great deal of sympathy for them.

And all kids (including my own) need to be at school.

Proth is right (to a degree), there is little reason for daily routine to stop at this point but we have to take some measures that will limit the spread. It also has to be understood that there are going to be a lot of people losing jobs whatever happens. Pubs and restaurants encourage communal life at a time we can't have that unfortunately - the furlough scheme needs to be sector specific to support those industries, whilst they close. Working from home where possible also needs to continue, it was madness to even try and get people back into offices until this is under control. The vulnerable have to shelter, there really isn't an option there. People have to wear masks, that is such a small imposition I can't believe we are even having that debate. We need to do these things so that industry / businesses that can't work from home can continue, schools and education generally can continue to operate. Hospitals need to be organised so that normal procedures can be carried out in separate buildings to covid issues - why that hasn't been managed by now I will never know.

The government had to do one thing well and that was introduce a way of measuring and controlling this virus - they failed massively on that and we are still blind on being able to plan because of that failure. They have been a complete shambles throughout and all of the time spending money in such a criminal manner it is unbelievable - how there hasn't been at least one resignation / sacking is beyond me.

Those 1.5M (at least) people will lose their jobs Proth, there really is nothing that can be done about that I'm afraid. The more the government dilly dally on decisions, work form home, go to work, work from home; close the pubs, here's some money to go to the pubs, close the pubs early; the more jobs will be lost. Time to amputate where we have to to save the leg I'm afraid.

[backsidebaggie]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

That’s what I thought keep them and their families inside so you can go and do anything you like!

If it's the price of keeping the economy going and our kids educated then it's worth it.

It could also achieve more immunity in the population faster which may be helping Sweden as the only place in Europe that hasnt had a second wave yet. I’m not saying it’s definitely the case, god knows what the best plan is, but we can’t keep coming in and out of lockdown for a vaccine that might never come. If, and it’s still a big if, Sweden don’t get a second wave, it doesn’t half support letting the healthy population get Covid as it will kill so few of them, while protecting the old and vulnerable. Obviously this is bloody difficult to get right. But what isn’t?

Oh FFS 

I wasn't even going to respond to this but over the past 14 days the cumulative number of covid cases across the EU by 100,000 of population puts Sweden in about the same position as Germany, Poland, Bulgaria, Norway and Lithuania. It puts them in a worse position than Finland and Latvia.

FFS Please, please, please can we stop using Sweden as a measurement of something that has succeeded, they haven't.

I wasn’t, that’s why I said if. I just think immunity is a factor worth taking into account. Time will tell if they had it right or wrong.