UK Covid death toll

[backsidebaggie]

There are 2 (Two [no need to shout]) people admitted, seriously injured,  to Birmingham hospitals per day due to RTAs. Not forgetting the 30 killed in Brum in a year. Would you suggest we do away with all Road Traffic laws where the accidents occur less?

That's about the most fatuous comparison yet.

I've argued for nothing but optimal protection measures throughout this who debacle. Those at risk of serious illness ought to take greater precautions. The healthy working age population ought to go about their business as usual, and kids should never have been stopped from going to school.

The oppotunity cost of the prevailing policy is far too high in economic, social, educational and (increasingly) in health terms. Having lost both my parents to late-diagnosed cancer - just wait until the shit starts hitting the fan on that one.

Totally agree. I did my back in last week and had to go to the hospital. The car park was two thirds empty. People aren’t being treated for other stuff and I think it’s appalling that this isn’t being questioned more. With cancer, heart attacks, strokes, the shit is yet to hit the fan. But it will.

[baggy1]

Are you saying that people aren't being treated or they just aren't going to hospital? As far as the NHS are saying they are treating as many as they can treat, there is a backlog from the lockdown but there has always been a backlog, that isn't new. Treatments are limited because by their very nature the people being treated are the vulnerable ones that need protecting. Or are you suggesting that should be scrapped and we should expose the vulnerable to risks in possibly one of the riskier environments.

[backsidebaggie]

Are you saying that people aren't being treated or they just aren't going to hospital? As far as the NHS are saying they are treating as many as they can treat, there is a backlog from the lockdown but there has always been a backlog, that isn't new. Treatments are limited because by their very nature the people being treated are the vulnerable ones that need protecting. Or are you suggesting that should be scrapped and we should expose the vulnerable to risks in possibly one of the riskier environments.

I’m just saying the conversation and questions should be being asked, as the balance doesn’t seem right.

[baggy1]

The hospitals are fitting in as many operations, treatments and consultations as they can from what I can see, obviously they have limited capacity but the space isn't being taken up by covid any more. There will obviously be a backlog but the government is pushing for using private hospitals as part of their privatisation agenda. Add to that there has always been a backlog and it looks like there is a narrative starting about it only is because of covid (there was a serious incident called last year because of the backlogs). Also don't forget the years of underfunding and understaffing of the NHS and you can see why we now have problems.

[backsidebaggie]

The hospitals are fitting in as many operations, treatments and consultations as they can from what I can see, obviously they have limited capacity but the space isn't being taken up by covid any more. There will obviously be a backlog but the government is pushing for using private hospitals as part of their privatisation agenda. Add to that there has always been a backlog and it looks like there is a narrative starting about it only is because of covid (there was a serious incident called last year because of the backlogs). Also don't forget the years of underfunding and understaffing of the NHS and you can see why we now have problems.

I totally agree with your point on underfunding.

In terms of whether they are fitting in ops and treatment for everything as best they can, I have my doubts. The quietness of hospitals for the last 2-3 months, plus what I’ve been told by two NHS staff myself, indicates this conversation needs to be had. I could be wrong, maybe they have got the balance right. But it doesn’t appear that way to me. There’s lots of capacity in terms of bed space. Literally loads. I appreciate there may be more to it than that, but I believe there’s about 700-800 Covid patients in hospital in the uk, which isnt many. I really worry the reduction of cancer checks and other ops will have serious consequences, and I don’t think this is being discussed enough in the media or by politicians.

[Ossian]

Are you saying that people aren't being treated or they just aren't going to hospital? As far as the NHS are saying they are treating as many as they can treat, there is a backlog from the lockdown but there has always been a backlog, that isn't new. Treatments are limited because by their very nature the people being treated are the vulnerable ones that need protecting. Or are you suggesting that should be scrapped and we should expose the vulnerable to risks in possibly one of the riskier environments.

B1, the government already tried a strategy akin to that by tipping infected patients out of wards and into care homes. Hopefully they learned something from the consequences.

[strawman]

The hospitals are fitting in as many operations, treatments and consultations as they can from what I can see, obviously they have limited capacity but the space isn't being taken up by covid any more. There will obviously be a backlog but the government is pushing for using private hospitals as part of their privatisation agenda. Add to that there has always been a backlog and it looks like there is a narrative starting about it only is because of covid (there was a serious incident called last year because of the backlogs). Also don't forget the years of underfunding and understaffing of the NHS and you can see why we now have problems.

Doctors and consultants are no longer seeing patients face to face, or certainly mine aren't, and from what I have been told they seem happy that this will last for a long while, maybe even a permanent arrangement. Not only are people having their treatment delayed for existing conditions, but I suspect the lack of face to face assessment will delay the diagnosis of new fatal conditions. In the long term this will be far more catastrophic.

[Protheroe]

I'm not certain what you two are actually arguing about, there are very few restrictions now - what are you hoping to happen further. People are back at work, schools will be back next week, shops, pubs, restaurants are open.

Not a single one of my clients is back at work in any normal sense. We are working with several clients to reboot offices which may, at a stretch, accommodate 30-35% of the staff that used to be permanently based there - so please don't suggest there are very few restrictions now.

[baggy1]

Fair points BB, there does seem to be a fair bit of focus on other issues (immigrants, old blokes with young chicks in tents, land of hope and glory) and this doesn't seem to be getting the appropriate amount of airtime. If only to dispel the rumours and say 'we're working at full capacity'. It was understandable in April and May and possibly into June, but we should be close to normal in hospitals now (with restrictions in place) as possible.

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I'm not certain what you two are actually arguing about, there are very few restrictions now - what are you hoping to happen further. People are back at work, schools will be back next week, shops, pubs, restaurants are open.

Not a single one of my clients is back at work in any normal sense. We are working with several clients to reboot offices which may, at a stretch, accommodate 30-35% of the staff that used to be permanently based there - so please don't suggest there are very few restrictions now.

Surely that is market driven and not anything else. What fields are they in? And just because they can't sit together, does that mean they can't operate?

[Protheroe]

Doctors and consultants are no longer seeing patients face to face, or certainly mine aren't, and from what I have been told they seem happy that this will last for a long while, maybe even a permanent arrangement. Not only are people having their treatment delayed for existing conditions, but I suspect the lack of face to face assessment will delay the diagnosis of new fatal conditions. In the long term this will be far more catastrophic.

This is absolutely true.

Private Healthcare (generous cover) on a Moratorium basis costs my family of four £102 per month. It's a drop in the ocean to have the comfort of being able to see a specilaist in person at the drop of a hat.

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Surely that is market driven and not anything else. What fields are they in? And just because they can't sit together, does that mean they can't operate?

Legal Services, Construction Consultancies, Actuaries, Patent Attorneys and the like. They can operate to some extent WFH, but the knock on effects for the legions of young workers who don't have the benefit of a garden room or attic conversion to use as an office look disastrous to me.