Durham

[Shabby Russian]

I am finding this viewpoint of yours quite disturbing, because ultimately it brings into question how much you respect the rule of law.

The rule of law is one of the three pillars of liberty, so of course I support it.

The fact is, he didn't break any law.

I happen to believe the Covid Laws are "bad law" but that's another matter and nothing to do with Cummings in Durham.

Fair enough if you don't think he broke any laws that's an opinion I don't agree with but I can respect.

[Derek Hardballs]

You are giving him the benefit of doubt as you are seemingly taking his version of events in the rose garden as the truth. As I said I cannot see any reason to give them the benefit of doubt. I imagine the reporter hasn’t corrected their story as they stand by it. If that’s the case then it’s up to you to decide whose version of events you believe.

I make no apologies for being biased, they are hardly giving any evidence my mistrust is out of place.

No, not taking his version as true at all - you are mistaken and I have said that in more than one post so I am not sure why you think I believe him. But his version tallies better than the link in the OP to the police version, though it has clearly omitted other motivations.

How can the reporter stand by the story in the OP link which (like others they ran) where the main thrust is that police spoke to Cummings himself (they didn't) and about lock down rules (they didn't) - facts. The first two paragraphs of that story in the link have been demonstrated as false, as police have confirmed. 

You give out about journalists not checking the facts properly and printing what the govt reports - I don't, it's part of the job.
And I do not blame the Guardian for running the original story if they thought the original facts and source were correct - turns out though they were wrong. They have not corrected it though or apologised, just chosen other lines of attack and glossed over it. That is utter hypocrisy for them and those that repeat the story they like and give out about 'bias media' when they don't like a story. 

Because you are not taking his stance on the matter. So we have to have deflection and we can’t have reasoned thinking. You should Know by now, there is no middle ground or taking each situation separately. You are either agin this government or a follower of the “Cult of Boris” in his view.

Imagine the angry bile and rhetoric if the rag in question had been the Mail or Sun!

Where is the deflection? What is unreasonable about arguing his position should and in normal / previous times would be untenable?

[fuzzbox]

I would have thought moving about the country when you know you have the virus would be unsupportable. 

If it was legal (and maybe it was, I don't know), then it makes all the other laws pointless and pisses on the poor peasants who weren't allowed to go to the deathbeds of their loved ones.

Should he resign? I don't much care, but all this wheedling  and double-talk is embarrassing. I can 'understand' him doing it to keep his job, but when others do it, it's just painful. 

I can absolutely see why the PM has hidden and ministers have been told to stop talking about it. It's an instant credibility loss when they do.

[Derek Hardballs]

Do we actually know how many people he Closely interacted with?  Would it be as many as those having barbecues in teaming parks and those crammed next to each other on the crowded beaches or in pub lock ins that were going on before this dozy tw*t’s sojourn?

You’re missing a rather important point here and that is the responsibility to follow the rules (or the spirit) he helped create and deliver the message on are followed properly. He should be setting an example to everyone else. If he doesn’t want to be held to such high standards then he should step down from his position.

All the excuses, whataboutery and nonsense about liberty (freedom to impinge on other people’s liberty for the sake of oneself) doesn’t alter that fact.

[JOK]

Also can a Range Rover Discovery Sport get all the way to Durham some 270 miles on one tank of petrol

I had one of these, one of the reasons I got rid you had to drive like a vicar to get 300 miles out of a tank of diesel

I said higher up, one of the questions was how many times did you stop? I reckon someone has CCTV footage of him. That would nail him.

Yes.  A diesel has a range of approx 500 miles [25 - 32 mpg] (Motorway) and a plug in Hybrid, far better.
So he could have easily got up there but would certainly have had to stop on way back. He would have remember running  out of fuel on the return I would think.

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Highest number of deaths per capita in the world

Incorrect.

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Do we actually know how many people he Closely interacted with?  Would it be as many as those having barbecues in teaming parks and those crammed next to each other on the crowded beaches or in pub lock ins that were going on before this dozy tw*t’s sojourn?

You’re missing a rather important point here 

I’m not missing the point. These statements have been made on this thread. I was simply asking do we know, for certain, how many people the family interacted with which can justify these bald posts.
“potentially exposing elderly people to Covid-19, on top of any other people you encounter on your 260 mile journey,”
“would be putting people at risk. What IF they had passed it on onto Cummings' elderly parents and they ended up passing away because of it? What IF I gave it to a poor worker at the services”
“The fact is that the idiot bent the rules and increased the spread of the virus,”

[Ossian]

You think that taking the virus from one part of the country to a less infected part was the right move do you? Or should he have just stayed at home?

I don't think it's any of my business. Or yours.

Shrugging off Cummings' (at the very least) elastic interpretations of guidelines which he was instrumental in formulating, on the premise of individual liberty, is a pretty convenient - and to be honest unconvincing - perspective.

And a particularly odd stance from someone who is so frequently exercised about accountability in public office.

[The liquidator]

Do we actually know how many people he Closely interacted with?  Would it be as many as those having barbecues in teaming parks and those crammed next to each other on the crowded beaches or in pub lock ins that were going on before this dozy tw*t’s sojourn?

You’re missing a rather important point here and that is the responsibility to follow the rules (or the spirit) he helped create and deliver the message on are followed properly. He should be setting an example to everyone else. If he doesn’t want to be held to such high standards then he should step down from his position.

All the excuses, whataboutery and nonsense about liberty (freedom to impinge on other people’s liberty for the sake of oneself) doesn’t alter that fact.

Come on derek let's get the names up who he infected you love facts so let's get your up on DC  going to Durham....no spin names please .

[Derek Hardballs]

Do we actually know how many people he Closely interacted with?  Would it be as many as those having barbecues in teaming parks and those crammed next to each other on the crowded beaches or in pub lock ins that were going on before this dozy tw*t’s sojourn?

You’re missing a rather important point here and that is the responsibility to follow the rules (or the spirit) he helped create and deliver the message on are followed properly. He should be setting an example to everyone else. If he doesn’t want to be held to such high standards then he should step down from his position.

All the excuses, whataboutery and nonsense about liberty (freedom to impinge on other people’s liberty for the sake of oneself) doesn’t alter that fact.

Come on derek let's get the names up who he infected you love facts so let's get your up on DC  going to Durham....no spin names please .

I’m afraid that due to a lack of track and trace and community testing at the time these figures are unavailable.

[The liquidator]

So you've made bullshit up have you without any names .

Your piers Morgan I claim my five false pictures of iraq soldiers.

[Derek Hardballs]

So you've made bullshit up have you without any names .

Your piers Morgan I claim my five false pictures of iraq soldiers.

What? Please point to any of my posts that concentrate on infection. You still don’t understand the argument do you? He was part of the team that came up with the lockdown rules and messages that if he didn’t break he certainly didn’t stick to the spirit of. Therefore he has weakened the message, created distrust in the government and potentially the safety of others as a consequence. I’m trying to be polite Liq but ffs stop making yourself look daft.