society has "just accepted" dead women as "one of those things".

[Fido]

I got as far as “Amanda Holden’s bum” and the immediately went to Google it. I’m part of the problem.

[HawkingsHalfpint]

Not at all Birdmon.

[The liquidator]

Great posts hawks

[ChamonixBaggie]

I'm struggling to see the point behind this 'great post' other than "social meeja bad"?

The fact that there are lots of other things wrong with modern society doesn't mean people shouldn't at least try to asses their attitudes and address the systemic, ingrained misogyny that many on here seem to think isn't an issue. This comes across as a deflection to me to be honest. "society is terrible so why bother"

[Tom Joad]

Looking at this, I miss away games. Even fucking Croydon.

[HawkingsHalfpint]

I'm struggling to see the point behind this 'great post' other than "social meeja bad"?

The fact that there are lots of other things wrong with modern society doesn't mean people shouldn't at least try to asses their attitudes and address the systemic, ingrained misogyny that many on here seem to think isn't an issue. This comes across as a deflection to me to be honest. "society is terrible so why bother"

The post wasn’t intended to excuse misogyny. Lots of tings is bad, including misogyny itself. You don’t know me yet you are labelling me a misogynist for examining society more?

Its point was that shouting about it after the event in extreme fashion on social media/via 24-hour news isn’t going to help much, when the root causes of a lot of inequalities in life - including misogyny - run far deeper. Sorry that that is lost on you. 

Like many things it’s a complex issue, and no ‘deflection’ was intended. Just all part of the discussion.

[ChamonixBaggie]

I'm struggling to see the point behind this 'great post' other than "social meeja bad"?

The fact that there are lots of other things wrong with modern society doesn't mean people shouldn't at least try to asses their attitudes and address the systemic, ingrained misogyny that many on here seem to think isn't an issue. This comes across as a deflection to me to be honest. "society is terrible so why bother"

The post wasn’t intended to excuse misogyny. Lots of tings is bad, including misogyny itself. You don’t know me yet you are labelling me a misogynist for examining society more?

Its point was that shouting about it after the event in extreme fashion on social media/via 24-hour news isn’t going to help much, when the root causes of a lot of inequalities in life - including misogyny - run far deeper. Sorry that that is lost on you. 

Like many things it’s a complex issue, and no ‘deflection’ was intended. Just all part of the discussion.

Point of order - I haven't labelled you anything? 

I disagree that the coverage this issue is recently receiving both on traditional media and via social media isn't going to help much. If it encourages any men at all to examine their own attitudes towards harassment, cat calling, predatory or inappropriate behaviour then it has helped. I am personally much more aware of the things I can do to make women more comfortable and feel safer following several posts my female friends have shared recently. And I don't think I'm a misogynist any more than you are.

Of course misogyny is a complex issue but education (especially around consent, and what constitutes harassment/assault), delivered via social media or otherwise, is an extremely helpful tool to combat the issue of violence against women.

[HawkingsHalfpint]

Suggesting I was guilty of deflection implies an ignorance or an excusing of misogyny, does it not?

Anyway, that’s besides the point. I’m all for creating a better and more accepting, sensible, honest and above all equal society. However, two recent stories (this week alone) have exhibited exactly how ridiculous these debates can become, with some senior political and media figureheads at the centre of both. Such juxtaposition encourages people to either take an extreme viewpoint, or disengage from the issue altogether. Both of which scenarios do more harm than good.

The solution and its discussion is a tough balance to strike. Many creeds practiced in this country actively preach misogyny, yet their doctrine is respected. Boardrooms are still majority male-populated, women still are sadly paid less than men, and progress is slower than it should be. Doesn’t change the fact that there are greater influences at large in society that give rise to the type of horrendous crime witnessed this week, by a very unlikely perpetrator.

Safely walking the streets should be a right enjoyed by all, particularly women. If we can debate that in the media without degenerating to talk of women remaining indoors after dark and-or curfews for men, great. But sadly we can’t.

[Pipkins]

The same society that ‘accepts dead women’ as ‘one of those things’ is the same society that:

- Seeks to divide the haves and have nots
- Seeks to divide us over Brexit and politics
- Bombards us with 24-hour bad news
- Seeks to divide us over BLM/ALM, Gammonism/Wokeism
- Seeks to divide us over scores of other things (including Ginger Princes and troublemaker spouses versus an imperialist bunch of toffs)
- Expects men to respect women while flaunting us with daily pictures of Amanda Holden’s bum in the right-wing press
- Perpetuates celebrity iconism
- Ignores the impact of social media on mental health (in particular those of children)
- Has amplified and increased access to borderline dangerous/illegal porn to the point of virtual commonplace
- Normalised the sexualisation of children
- Fills our home with sexual idealism by littering our screens with tripe like Love Island and America’s Next Top Slut
- Allows those guilty of very serious crimes with enough money to exist under house arrest
- Has lost the war on drugs
- Seems to revel in ‘awareness raising’ that is actually anything but (more like profile-raising for many of those involved)
- Medicates problems away rather than addresses root causes
- Encourages us to want better, buy more, borrow more (yet save more), party harder, drink more (but responsibly), gamble more (but responsibly), work harder, fuck harder, all the while striving to improve our looks, health and well-being
- Encourages us to book the lavish holidays we crave when we’re told not to
- Puts Villa on the telly.

Easy to blame lack of education, lack of police, and a host of other things, when for me it is controversial ‘news’ and the deluge of social media in our lives that are among the biggest factors. People don’t talk, they text or ‘DM’, mediation is a lost art, sitting on the fence no longer exists. You have to be one thing or the other, and too many loonies at each side are the boldest, loudest and most celebrated when the smaller, softer ones in between often offer the greater opportunities for progress and unity.

All governed by an overarching social media from which there seems to be no escape; too much of it precisely and quite impeccably designed to infuriate, inflame and incite divisionalism; all in the name of click-through revenue and consumption.

Society isn’t perfect, never has been, and how can it be given the above. I remember reading a Far Side cartoon that summed it up best... God in a kitchen with a globe in the cooking pot, jars full of different ethnicities on a nearby shelf, with him selecting one labelled ‘CUNTS’ while muttering to himself “and just to make it interesting...”

Happy Saturday!

Excellent post

[Squid]

I feel like we're getting a bit off-topic here.

According to the Counting Dead Women campaign in 2019 in the UK, 116 women were killed by men. That's around one woman dying every three days. That is not rare.

We know that both victims and killers came from all walks of life. The men who do this aren't all social outcasts, incapable of holding down a job or having families. Many of them appear completely ordinary. However, what lots of them do have is long histories of violence against women. Society has made big progress in terms of recognising domestic violence as wrong (btw it wasn't considered a crime to rape your wife in the UK until 1991), but we clearly have some way to go.

I guarantee all of you will have encountered or know a man who is, for want of a better word, "dodgy" towards women and not just in a bantering way either. And rather than talk of curfews and such, we need to be thinking about how we challenge these men.

I agree that some of it starts from a young age in education for youngsters, but it is something we need to be aware of throughout our lives.