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+--- Thread: So where are we then (/showthread.php?tid=7080)
RE: So where are we then - baggy1 - 10-29-2019
(10-29-2019, 12:52 PM)The liquidator Wrote: Chamonix baggie if there was a second referendum and it was still 52% /48% in favour of leave and they said it was a hard brexit what happens then ? Parliment wont let a democratic vote through so whsts the point of a second referendum
The problem was created with the original phrasing of the question - Remain is obvious but what does Leave mean? Without all of the semantics and point scoring that goes on between the different factions I think we can all agree that 52% of the vote didn't vote for, or expect, a 'No deal' scenario.
The problem with the whole mess is that it has broken down and is being used by political parties for their own agenda's. If they were genuinely interested in what the public wanted they would put a credible deal on the table, highlight the consequences and potential benefits of that approach and let the people decide. But once again it is being used to hide long held political wants by being vague to hide them.
I can actually see the Tory's getting a strong position basing the GE on a 'We want to get it done' platform, however they don't appear to see the long term damage they are doing to the party. The traditional Labour Brexit voters might move to Boris for this GE but will not be there for long, whilst centrist and some traditional voters that would consider Conservative (like myself) will be a long time winning over again.
RE: So where are we then - The liquidator - 10-29-2019
Baggie1 that's the problem I voted out so we can do our own trade deals you may not like it but others I know knew what they was voting for it's only the ones who disagree with put this argument up pal ......I understand your frustrations .
RE: So where are we then - baggy1 - 10-29-2019
(10-29-2019, 02:04 PM)The liquidator Wrote: Baggie1 that's the problem I voted out so we can do our own trade deals you may not like it but others I know knew what they was voting for it's only the ones who disagree with put this argument up pal ......I understand your frustrations .
I know Liq, I have mates that voted leave with the same views that you have, I don't take away their right to have those views and respect them. This whole mess has turned into something that it wasn't painted to be. And I have never said that the EU is the shiny ideal that we should fall 100% in line with, but it does mean that we can get on with our domestic agenda and let them worry about those trade deals. I think our showing over the last 3 years should scare the life out of you for any upcoming trade negotiations
RE: So where are we then - The liquidator - 10-29-2019
I think the difference with me is that I'm prepared for the rocky road ahead what will happen .not in money as I'm as like any other man down the road who is on his arse like everyone else . I've said it before my kids cant get on the property ladder the way it is maybe just maybe with us being out they might have a brighter future because the way it is now it's just stagnant with most of us just going around in circles .....you might be happy with the status quo alot of people are not .......
RE: So where are we then - Derek Hardballs - 10-29-2019
(10-29-2019, 02:04 PM)The liquidator Wrote: Baggie1 that's the problem I voted out so we can do our own trade deals you may not like it but others I know knew what they was voting for it's only the ones who disagree with put this argument up pal ......I understand your frustrations .
You cannot speak for 17.4m people there was a wide range of views on what Brexit meant. Farage at one point was pointing to Norway, then Canada now it is a no deal crash out is what we wanted. It's bullshit. There will have to be a deal with the E.U in the long term regardless of whether we crash out or not. The only difference is we would be in an even weaker position to negotiate with them than we are now. Do you really think China, the US, India, Russia are going to bend over backwards for us and offer us fair deals or will they say jump and we say how high?
I want a second referendum not a third election in what in four years? If it's hung parliament again, we are back where we started and as Baggie1 said if the long term strategy is make us a low tax, low wage economy with very little safety net from the state which I cannot see past with this awful cabinet then Tories are simply storing up major problems for themselves in the future. The nonsense about the E.U. being to blame will be gone, the idea that Boris is a man of the people will be gone and the idea that the Tory government is a broad church who have abandoned the nasty party tag will be a dim and distant dream.
RE: So where are we then - The liquidator - 10-29-2019
If he gets a majority then he can go for a no deal then blame your lot for kicking the can down the road.........your lot fault nobody else .
RE: So where are we then - baggy1 - 10-29-2019
But that simply isn't the truth Liq, The Torys have sat on this for three years and rushed around like headless chickens at the last minute. Nothing to do with any other 'lot' - a crisis created by the Tories and completely managed by them over the last few years.
The 'No deal' scenario is a right wing creation that nobody wants apart from a small group of extremists. The country should be pulling together against that, but they are being hoodwinked. If Boris stands for his GE on a 'No Deal' stance he'd get wiped out and he knows it.
RE: So where are we then - Derek Hardballs - 10-29-2019
(10-29-2019, 02:18 PM)The liquidator Wrote: I think the difference with me is that I'm prepared for the rocky road ahead what will happen .not in money as I'm as like any other man down the road who is on his arse like everyone else . I've said it before my kids cant get on the property ladder the way it is maybe just maybe with us being out they might have a brighter future because the way it is now it's just stagnant with most of us just going around in circles .....you might be happy with the status quo alot of people are not .......
If we leave without a deal and medicine supplies become an issue than a close family members health is put in real danger. I couldn't give a flying fuck if it's project fear or not, if we end up there, which imo there are still no guarantees with this government it won't happen, then I and they should just accept it's a price worth paying? The best deal we are ever going to get with our biggest customer is the one we already have.
The house market crisis is down to UK Governments policies it has barely anything to do with the E.U. You should be asking why this and other governments haven't built more affordable houses? Why it's ok for the rich to buy up vast swathes of houses for rent and thus pushing the average price of homes up as a result? You can't blame E.U. or those EU nationals making a living over here for austerity, the housing shortages or other domestic policies that have failed. Ten years this government in its various forms has had of making things better and look at the fecking state of the country!
(10-29-2019, 02:25 PM)The liquidator Wrote: If he gets a majority then he can go for a no deal then blame your lot for kicking the can down the road.........your lot fault nobody else .
No it will be this Prime Minister and his cabinets choice and fault no one elses. This is a Tory mess from start to finish and your kids future or mine will not be better if we crash out without a deal, quite the opposite.
RE: So where are we then - The liquidator - 10-29-2019
I was worse off under labour and nearly lost my house under them and you want a labour government who the leader went to ira funerals and mcdonell is no better .you might find it acceptable but I cant with our city bombed by the ira I cant forgive it forget it .......get different leaders in and get rid of Corbyn abbott mcdonell lammy Phillip's watson and co and you might change the likes of me and others to vote labour at the moment I would rather stick my fingers in a blender .
RE: So where are we then - Sliced - 10-29-2019
(10-29-2019, 01:00 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:(10-29-2019, 12:52 PM)The liquidator Wrote: Chamonix baggie if there was a second referendum and it was still 52% /48% in favour of leave and they said it was a hard brexit what happens then ? Parliment wont let a democratic vote through so whsts the point of a second referendum
It would I’m sure be ran with the terms agreed that whatever the outcome that would be agreed and passed by parliament. If leavers are do confident they would win why do they shy / hide / do everything possible to deny a confirmatory vote?
Exactly this. Winning a confirmatory vote would give them the conclusive mandate that they desire.