Trump backs Boris
#21
I do think we have a tendency in the UK to blur the lines between low paid and low skilled; plenty of highly skilled people can be found towards the lower end of the earnings scale. Perhaps it's a reflection on how we have historically valued and continue to value certain types of work.

In part it's underpinned by the class system, to which we are still wedded; this notion that if your living is earned in a 'trade' then it's probably partly because you weren't sufficiently academic to work in a 'profession'. And, much as most of us might see that as a nonsensical way to value someone - as well as probably being simply incorrect - it's still very much evident in the employment market (which is also additionally skewed by birthright and educational opportunities).
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#22
(11-04-2019, 01:06 PM)The liquidator Wrote: These people who employ the fruit pickers are nothing more than slave labour they these people a pittance .......let them.pay the going rate you might find that they will get people to do the work instead of kids money ....I hope their fruit rots the scoundrels

And therein lies a problem - we as a nation are happy to get cheap fruit and veg on the table without thinking too much about how, as it is cheap and affordable, it gets to be that cost. Following through your point, and I don't disagree with it btw, the farmers would pay more for the UK based labour and therefore it would cost more at the supermarket.

However, your point is based on a couple of other basic points - that the UK workers are only not doing the job because of the pay, and not because they are better off on benefits so why bother; and that the public are happy to pay the extra cost for UK goods when they can buy the same fruit imported from Spain cheaper.

Also and we are all to blame as a society - you question the slave labour in the fields of Lincolnshire or Norfolk but what about the rest of the world? Have you considered how much the worker will get paid for the clothes we buy from Primark for instance - that jumper at a fiver includes materials, transport, storage, the wages of the shopworkers (UK rates), the cost of the premises (rent, light, heat etc) and lastly some slave labour in Asia (most probably).

And going back to another of your points on how much you have struggled recently to earn enough to provide for your family - how are you going to manage when the inevitable happens here which is costs going up because of Brexit?

(11-04-2019, 01:55 PM)Ossian Wrote: I do think we have a tendency in the UK to blur the lines between low paid and low skilled; plenty of highly skilled people can be found towards the lower end of the earnings scale. Perhaps it's a reflection on how we have historically valued and continue to value certain types of work.

In part it's underpinned by the class system, to which we are still wedded; this notion that if your living is earned in a 'trade' then it's probably partly because you weren't sufficiently academic to work in a 'profession'. And, much as most of us might see that as a nonsensical way to value someone - as well as probably being simply incorrect - it's still very much evident in the employment market (which is also additionally skewed by birthright and educational opportunities).

That's a really good line of thought Oss - I do think that today the skilled workers such as Plumbers, Sparkys etc do get paid comparably with the 'Professional type jobs, but there are many others especially in the care industry that are underpaid for what they have to do.
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#23
(11-04-2019, 01:55 PM)Ossian Wrote: I do think we have a tendency in the UK to blur the lines between low paid and low skilled; plenty of highly skilled people can be found towards the lower end of the earnings scale. Perhaps it's a reflection on how we have historically valued and continue to value certain types of work.

In part it's underpinned by the class system, to which we are still wedded; this notion that if your living is earned in a 'trade' then it's probably partly because you weren't sufficiently academic to work in a 'profession'. And, much as most of us might see that as a nonsensical way to value someone - as well as probably being simply incorrect - it's still very much evident in the employment market (which is also additionally skewed by birthright and educational opportunities).

Nail on the head ...
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#24
(11-04-2019, 01:06 PM)The liquidator Wrote:
(11-04-2019, 11:20 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(11-03-2019, 01:15 PM)The liquidator Wrote:
(11-01-2019, 09:29 AM)baggy1 Wrote: It's all starting to unravel - when will the Brexiteers realise / admit that they've been billy bullshitted on this all along. Boris isn't carrying out the will of the people, he's carrying out the will of his mates.

The deal with the EU was going to be the 'easiest ever'.
The US were ready to sign the deal with us - turns out they're not now and Donald is just looking after his mate again.
The Indian trade deal will relax the immigration rules with India.

At which point will you wake up and see you've been had.

Nothing wrong with immigration just want people with the right credentials and enough points etc really dont see what's wrong with it .

Like trainee nurses, carers, fruit pickers, labourers all of which will be blocked as they don’t hit the £30k earning threshold? I think I’d rather we had people who wanted to do those jobs rather than some lazy arsed UK numpties who have been forced to do the job.

These people who employ the fruit pickers are nothing more than slave labour they these people a pittance .......let them.pay the going rate you might find that they will get people to do the work instead of kids money ....I hope their fruit rots the scoundrels

Being involved with 1 of the largest fruit, plant and compost growers in the country, I can tell you it's not the money, it's the graft people are avoiding.
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#25
(11-05-2019, 08:56 PM)Baggie Rick Wrote:
(11-04-2019, 01:06 PM)The liquidator Wrote:
(11-04-2019, 11:20 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(11-03-2019, 01:15 PM)The liquidator Wrote:
(11-01-2019, 09:29 AM)baggy1 Wrote: It's all starting to unravel - when will the Brexiteers realise / admit that they've been billy bullshitted on this all along. Boris isn't carrying out the will of the people, he's carrying out the will of his mates.

The deal with the EU was going to be the 'easiest ever'.
The US were ready to sign the deal with us - turns out they're not now and Donald is just looking after his mate again.
The Indian trade deal will relax the immigration rules with India.

At which point will you wake up and see you've been had.

Nothing wrong with immigration just want people with the right credentials and enough points etc really dont see what's wrong with it .

Like trainee nurses, carers, fruit pickers, labourers all of which will be blocked as they don’t hit the £30k earning threshold? I think I’d rather we had people who wanted to do those jobs rather than some lazy arsed UK numpties who have been forced to do the job.

These people who employ the fruit pickers are nothing more than slave labour they these people a pittance .......let them.pay the going rate you might find that they will get people to do the work instead of kids money ....I hope their fruit rots the scoundrels

Being involved with 1 of the largest fruit, plant and compost growers in the country, I can tell you it's not the money, it's the graft people are avoiding.

Agree.

I've worked in food manufacturing and FMCG for the last 5-6 years, and the money in our factories is good compared to service/retail/care industries, but it requires hard work with long shifts on your feet doing manual, repetitive labour. Even with probably 60-70% of our workforce overseas born, we continually struggle to get enough staff to fill open roles with many British workers leaving after little or no time in role... this is despite the average British worker rising through the ranks rapidly due to language skills! 

Unfortunately, my personal experiences in this industry and having a very good friend working as a functional assessor at the moment for the DWP assessing disability and sickness claims makes me think that it's nothing to do with immigration, but more so a complete disinterest and level of entitlement which stops people working, and then our invention of things like fibromyalgia and ADHD gives the excuse they require to sit at home or in the local 'spoons from 9am.
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#26
(11-06-2019, 08:52 AM)SW4Baggie Wrote:
(11-05-2019, 08:56 PM)Baggie Rick Wrote:
(11-04-2019, 01:06 PM)The liquidator Wrote:
(11-04-2019, 11:20 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(11-03-2019, 01:15 PM)The liquidator Wrote: Nothing wrong with immigration just want people with the right credentials and enough points etc really dont see what's wrong with it .

Like trainee nurses, carers, fruit pickers, labourers all of which will be blocked as they don’t hit the £30k earning threshold? I think I’d rather we had people who wanted to do those jobs rather than some lazy arsed UK numpties who have been forced to do the job.

These people who employ the fruit pickers are nothing more than slave labour they these people a pittance .......let them.pay the going rate you might find that they will get people to do the work instead of kids money ....I hope their fruit rots the scoundrels

Being involved with 1 of the largest fruit, plant and compost growers in the country, I can tell you it's not the money, it's the graft people are avoiding.

Agree.

I've worked in food manufacturing and FMCG for the last 5-6 years, and the money in our factories is good compared to service/retail/care industries, but it requires hard work with long shifts on your feet doing manual, repetitive labour. Even with probably 60-70% of our workforce overseas born, we continually struggle to get enough staff to fill open roles with many British workers leaving after little or no time in role... this is despite the average British worker rising through the ranks rapidly due to language skills! 

Unfortunately, my personal experiences in this industry and having a very good friend working as a functional assessor at the moment for the DWP assessing disability and sickness claims makes me think that it's nothing to do with immigration, but more so a complete disinterest and level of entitlement which stops people working, and then our invention of things like fibromyalgia and ADHD gives the excuse they require to sit at home or in the local 'spoons from 9am.

The invention of? I think they are accepted conditions within medicine. There are some people who actively look to avoid work via sickness benefits but it’s a small proportion of people and the demonisation of those on disability benefits is a stain on this governments record.
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#27
I don't think SW is saying that these are invented conditions, just that there are those out there that 'invent' the symptoms to ensure they get the payments and avoid work. I know of at least one person who tells the tale of not washing their hair and using deodorant for days before the assessment, has an exaggerated slow walk on the way to the meeting and spends the rest of their time worrying about being caught or filmed.

Years ago I went to a morbidly obese woman's house to advise on diet and exercise to improve her condition. Part of that involved walking, 1stly to the gate at the end of her path and back, then to the lamppost and back and so on until she could do a 'lap' of her immediate area. She said she couldn't do it because she'd be grassed up to the social by her neighbours.
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#28
(11-06-2019, 09:55 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(11-06-2019, 08:52 AM)SW4Baggie Wrote:
(11-05-2019, 08:56 PM)Baggie Rick Wrote:
(11-04-2019, 01:06 PM)The liquidator Wrote:
(11-04-2019, 11:20 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Like trainee nurses, carers, fruit pickers, labourers all of which will be blocked as they don’t hit the £30k earning threshold? I think I’d rather we had people who wanted to do those jobs rather than some lazy arsed UK numpties who have been forced to do the job.

These people who employ the fruit pickers are nothing more than slave labour they these people a pittance .......let them.pay the going rate you might find that they will get people to do the work instead of kids money ....I hope their fruit rots the scoundrels

Being involved with 1 of the largest fruit, plant and compost growers in the country, I can tell you it's not the money, it's the graft people are avoiding.

Agree.

I've worked in food manufacturing and FMCG for the last 5-6 years, and the money in our factories is good compared to service/retail/care industries, but it requires hard work with long shifts on your feet doing manual, repetitive labour. Even with probably 60-70% of our workforce overseas born, we continually struggle to get enough staff to fill open roles with many British workers leaving after little or no time in role... this is despite the average British worker rising through the ranks rapidly due to language skills! 

Unfortunately, my personal experiences in this industry and having a very good friend working as a functional assessor at the moment for the DWP assessing disability and sickness claims makes me think that it's nothing to do with immigration, but more so a complete disinterest and level of entitlement which stops people working, and then our invention of things like fibromyalgia and ADHD gives the excuse they require to sit at home or in the local 'spoons from 9am.

The invention of? I think they are accepted conditions within medicine. There are some people who actively look to avoid work via sickness benefits but it’s a small proportion of people and the demonisation of those on disability benefits is a stain on this governments record.

this governments record.   What is their record ?
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#29
CWS

[Image: EIpP5EcW4AgF6gK?format=jpg&name=4096x4096]
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#30
(11-06-2019, 08:52 AM)SW4Baggie Wrote:
(11-05-2019, 08:56 PM)Baggie Rick Wrote:
(11-04-2019, 01:06 PM)The liquidator Wrote:
(11-04-2019, 11:20 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(11-03-2019, 01:15 PM)The liquidator Wrote: Nothing wrong with immigration just want people with the right credentials and enough points etc really dont see what's wrong with it .

Like trainee nurses, carers, fruit pickers, labourers all of which will be blocked as they don’t hit the £30k earning threshold? I think I’d rather we had people who wanted to do those jobs rather than some lazy arsed UK numpties who have been forced to do the job.

These people who employ the fruit pickers are nothing more than slave labour they these people a pittance .......let them.pay the going rate you might find that they will get people to do the work instead of kids money ....I hope their fruit rots the scoundrels

Being involved with 1 of the largest fruit, plant and compost growers in the country, I can tell you it's not the money, it's the graft people are avoiding.

Agree.

I've worked in food manufacturing and FMCG for the last 5-6 years, and the money in our factories is good compared to service/retail/care industries, but it requires hard work with long shifts on your feet doing manual, repetitive labour. Even with probably 60-70% of our workforce overseas born, we continually struggle to get enough staff to fill open roles with many British workers leaving after little or no time in role... this is despite the average British worker rising through the ranks rapidly due to language skills! 

Unfortunately, my personal experiences in this industry and having a very good friend working as a functional assessor at the moment for the DWP assessing disability and sickness claims makes me think that it's nothing to do with immigration, but more so a complete disinterest and level of entitlement which stops people working, and then our invention of things like fibromyalgia and ADHD gives the excuse they require to sit at home or in the local 'spoons from 9am.
Labour love giving it out the dwp claims it will get worse not cut
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