Are we at war with the EU?
#1
Erm no.
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#2
It seems like they are pretty much sitting back while we the two halves of this country work themselves into a frenzy. The UK are yelling "THE BACKSTOP IS UNDEMOCRATIC" while the EU have basically said "ok, find an alternative to the backstop you came up with, and we'll talk".

Similarly no deal is being used as a threat to them for if they don't accept the deal we're proposing, but we're not proposing anything to them.

We're at war with ourselves, the EU are open to negotiations despite us already negotiating a deal with them which we're now turning around and saying "ok, we accepted it, but it's not good enough, can we try again?".

The EU is absolutely within their right to stick two fingers up to us at this point because the harsh reality is that "No Deal" is much more of a problem for the UK than for the EU, but they aren't doing that, and we're wasting the opportunity of at least trying to leave without completely fucking ourselves.
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#3
(09-26-2019, 04:02 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Erm no.

Apparently we volunteered 580 odd pages of surrender terms, the EU said "Okay, if that's what you want" and we then said "Sorry, this is a bit awkward but we hadn't actually agreed them ourselves. Don't mind us, just carry on while we have a civil war first".

By the way, I'm not sure that getting wound up by Johnson constantly referring to a "Surrender deal" is the most effective strategy. It might be better to respond to it as infantile rather than offensive; symptomatic of the petulant, attention-seeking man-child who keeps repeating it.
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#4
(09-26-2019, 05:09 PM)Sliced Wrote: It seems like they are pretty much sitting back while we the two halves of this country work themselves into a frenzy. The UK are yelling "THE BACKSTOP IS UNDEMOCRATIC" while the EU have basically said "ok, find an alternative to the backstop you came up with, and we'll talk".

Similarly no deal is being used as a threat to them for if they don't accept the deal we're proposing, but we're not proposing anything to them.

We're at war with ourselves, the EU are open to negotiations despite us already negotiating a deal with them which we're now turning around and saying "ok, we accepted it, but it's not good enough, can we try again?".

The EU is absolutely within their right to stick two fingers up to us at this point because the harsh reality is that "No Deal" is much more of a problem for the UK than for the EU, but they aren't doing that, and we're wasting the opportunity of at least trying to leave without completely fucking ourselves.

Surely nothing was formally agreed? Wasn't it simply a 'working' agreement which the May team then said 'okay we will take this back to Parliament for approval'? On the Backstop - can't they come up with something creative, maybe which involves some trust on both sides? Maybe check random lorries not all, or maybe move the check points within the Northern Ireland territory so it ensures 'border' issues where the land lies, is not so much of an issue. I know there will be a myriad of legal issues on such ideas but surely some trust and inventiveness can be used and must have been used to settle disputes like this in the past?
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#5
What difference does it make whether it's a working agreement or a formal agreement? There's nothing to suggest that it wouldn't have been formalised, which is why Theresa May tried to steamroll it through parliament 85 times. The EU doesn't have a problem with the backstop, despite us coming up with it. We're the ones with the problem, so we need to propose an alternative that suits us.
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