Pensions
#21
(09-02-2021, 03:41 PM)Protheroe Wrote: There is not, and never has been a state pension pot with your name on it.

He knows that; I haven't asked him, but I'd bet B1's pension and my own that he knows that. And there is a 'pot'; it just happens to be expressed in years of accumulated entitlement up to a maximum, rather than £.pp.

Talk about bloody obtuse...
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#22
He knows that Oss, he just likes to ignore the bleeding obvious sometimes.
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#23
(09-02-2021, 10:05 AM)Protheroe Wrote: You also talk about not wanting to pull the ladder up. I'm afraid the ladder has been pulled up, sawn apart and burned. That is exactly the reason why the only practicable solution for our kids and grandkids is that you, I and everyone else lucky enough to have housing assets that have grown without any effort on our part ought to be using the equity therein to fund our retirement.

No effort!
 I don’t consider years of scrimping to afford our mortgage , especially when the repayments doubled within about twelve months of taking it out, on a poor wage. No foreign holidays, a second hand , base model, small car, no nights out, wife doing two part time jobs (with one on a Sunday morning) as no effort! Despite having a limited disposable income, I still allocated some of it to a private pension. I consider I have made an effort. Now you tell me, after all that, I should cheerfully and gratefully move out of this small (two bed and a box) house, our home for 40 plus years, in which we feel comfortable and holds so many memories, amongst people we have known for decades, into a smaller building or a retirement complex flat?  I've had cause to inspect a few of those places, no thanks!

Just an aside, where is all this accommodation we can ‘downsize’ to?
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#24
I've no real private pension of any real value so have accepted the fact I'll be at least part time until I can't keep going.

It's not beyond expectations for people to spend 20/25 years now retired. I don't think that is sustainable financially and can see retirement age constantly rising.
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#25
Many here talking of being fortunate, I too have been able to buy a house and make small investments but not everyone can do this.Others believed they would do the same and sadly died before seeing their pensions. I am the sole survivor of 4 other siblings that didn't see their pensions, born to a mother that also died before pensionable age.Many through no fault of their own, have not been to. Some on here are assuming everyone has been able to pay into private pensions, live in large houses they can promptly sell at huge profit and move into the thousands of small bungalows that suddenly appear to be available.
No mention of the wholesale sell off of affordable council housing that requires many pensioners to pay the equivalent of a months pension in rent to private landlords. No mention of the nursing homes that end up with the client's house. No mention for those that may have worked hard and not had anything left to put into a pension. No mention of the many that haven't even lived to see their pension. Cradle to grave was the message, politicians have not delivered. Those that have worked and contributed their whole life, deserve a decent pension.
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#26
Exactly Tom, there is some sort of belief that by means testing pensions there will be this huge windfall that will save the countries finances. Let's say that of the 8M pensioners, and that the average weekly income is £250 (£13k pa) that clearly means that there will be 4M that wouldn't be impacted by means testing as they would all be below an income of £13k. If the bar was set at £30k including state pension then we would remove the vast majority of pensioners from any means testing.

So let's build in property value, there would need to be some calculation based on value of property less the value of what they would be able to downsize to - punishing people for working towards having a property all of their lives and wanting to enjoy the fruits of that hard work is madness. We already tax the inheritance of that property so it's not as if there isn't a tax of the increase in value anyway. Add to that the amount of people that will simply pass on the property, or put it in trust because of any means testing will result in the square root of fuck all as well.

Then we have savings to build in, you would simply disincentivise the older generation from saving which will damage the banks and therefore everyone. Banks need to have a certain level of assets to allow lending. The assets are partially the savings, so if you reduce the amounts being saved (what's the point it could cost £8k a year) then you will reduce the amounts banks can lend. 

And finally let's not forget that any state pension is included in your taxable income so if your pensions are healthy enough then you will pay tax on it anyway.

It's just doing what politicians do - pitting one community against another. It has next to zero benefit apart from soundbites and headlines. The number of pensioners who have pensions over £40k index linked is close to the number of people that think Zahore will become a top class striker.
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#27
(09-04-2021, 06:56 AM)JOK Wrote:
(09-02-2021, 10:05 AM)Protheroe Wrote: You also talk about not wanting to pull the ladder up. I'm afraid the ladder has been pulled up, sawn apart and burned. That is exactly the reason why the only practicable solution for our kids and grandkids is that you, I and everyone else lucky enough to have housing assets that have grown without any effort on our part ought to be using the equity therein to fund our retirement.

No effort!
 I don’t consider years of scrimping to afford our mortgage , especially when the repayments doubled within about twelve months of taking it out, on a poor wage. No foreign holidays, a second hand , base model, small car, no nights out, wife doing two part time jobs (with one on a Sunday morning) as no effort! Despite having a limited disposable income, I still allocated some of it to a private pension. I consider I have made an effort. Now you tell me, after all that, I should cheerfully and gratefully move out of this small (two bed and a box) house, our home for 40 plus years, in which we feel comfortable and holds so many memories, amongst people we have known for decades, into a smaller building or a retirement complex flat?  I've had cause to inspect a few of those places, no thanks!

Just an aside, where is all this accommodation we can ‘downsize’ to?

Can you clarify the "effort" you made to increase the value of your house by 14% ish in the last year? or 8% the year before? This is wholly speculative unearned wealth.

It's not other kids job to underwrite the value of our assets so we can pass them onto our kids, particularly when we've crowded them out of the housing market. I'm as guilty of this as the next person, more so as I have a stake in several other properties.

If the accumulation of wealth over a working lifetime is not for seeing you through your retirement years, then what is it for?
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#28
It’s not that binary though is it, you can accumulate wealth to provide support for family as well.
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#29
(09-06-2021, 11:49 AM)baggy1 Wrote: It’s not that binary though is it, you can accumulate wealth to provide support for family as well.

Yes, indeed you can.

But having done so it strikes me as unfair asking younger workers who've never had the opportunity to accumulate wealth to underwrite your / my wealth preservation.
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#30
So tell me how this theory will work, where will you draw the line for means testing? How will that encourage me to save for my retirement based on what I have said about banks needing to balance the books. Why would I pay into a pension pot that will mean I will lose £8k a year if I do so. Am I to be measured on the amount of money I can release by downsizing or on the whole property, and if the latter how do I get the value out - equity release? That’s worked so far clearly.

It’s a nice sound bite but it is unworkable.
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