Snobbery

[Sotv]

Hmm there are definitely a few on here this could apply to 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

[Tom Joad]

Hmm there are definitely a few on here this could apply to 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

Boris is looking happy in that picture..

[Derek Hardballs]

I read the article and it’s incredibly condescending. He criticises those on one side of the debate as snobbish elites whilst suggesting the other side are voiceless and powerless victims. There is no nuance whatsoever to his argument at least in the article linked. Anything problematic like a significant number of working class people who have worked hard at school and gained a degree, who may hold a different point of view, are accused of leaving their communities and friends behind. There will be many in those communities that identify themselves as working class with and without a degree, that do not agree with Brexit, the current government or the narrative still being spun that the EU and others be they teachers, judges, the nebulous ‘elite’ (but not Johnson, Mogg or three quarters of the printed press etc) are the problem despite years of austerity decimating local cities and towns up and down the country.

[Sotv]

I read the article and it’s incredibly condescending. He criticises those on one side of the debate as snobbish elites whilst suggesting the other side are voiceless and powerless victims. There is no nuance whatsoever to his argument at least in the article linked. Anything problematic like a significant number of working class people who have worked hard at school and gained a degree, who may hold a different point of view, are accused of leaving their communities and friends behind. There will be many in those communities that identify themselves as working class with and without a degree, that do not agree with Brexit, the current government or the narrative still being spun that the EU and others be they teachers, judges, the nebulous ‘elite’ (but not Johnson, Mogg or three quarters of the printed press etc) are the problem despite years of austerity decimating local cities and towns up and down the country.

Brilliant, you complaining about a lack of nuance. If displaying a lack of self awareness was an Olympic sport, they would be drug testing you every 5 minutes. 
I’m not sure how saying those who you clearly despise Derek have flexed their muscles suggests they are powerless.
The article has definitely touched a nerve hasn’t it ?

[JOK]

Hmm there are definitely a few on here this could apply to 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

Read it yesterday and had the same thought. 

---

Came upon this last night. Struck a cord with me.
 
https://youtu.be/ItEkpJpixHI

[Derek Hardballs]

Questions…

Do many working class people in the Midlands and North have a degree? 

Why does gaining a higher education mean their views are no longer as valid about the area they may still live in and have grown up in? It seems a rather weak argument to say all graduates leave their community, town or city as soon as they gain their degree. It’s also at odds with members of this government declaring many degrees are not worth taking because they don’t offer well paid jobs at the end of the course (not sure you measure education simply on the binary argument does it make me well off but that’s the current mindset sadly). 

Do those on the leave side not throw insults around? I must have missed the polite discourse between the two sides. 

Are those without degrees / higher education qualifications not influenced by others outside of their peer group? I only ask as the argument seems to be those who are educated are influenced by a small group of elites. It’s not made clear if this accusation can be equally laid at the door of those on the other side of the argument? 

How has the leave side of the argument attempted to bring nearly half the population with them, with regards to Brexit or wider issues that divide the country? Have they been the better people, more magnanimous? Does the line ‘you lost get over it’ ring a bell? 

Has the government tried to bring people together or looked to divide and blame groups of people whenever they feel any political heat?

Is the centre right author simply perpetuating the divide within society by only seemingly criticising one side of the argument? 

When austerity was decimating public services (still is) for the poorest and most vulnerable were the posters portraying themselves as caring about the working class, campaigning against them? Or were they campaigning for, endorsing them or staying silent over them at best? 

Put up or shut up

[Ossian]

There's a conundrum where the so-called 'Red wall' is concerned - one the centrists in both of the main parties should be considering. Are the reasons for abandoning Labour the same as those for embracing the Tories? My guess it's bit more complicated than that, and some of it may be indicative of nothing more than the Hobson's Choice effect of our enduring two-party system.

I don't know about anybody else on here, but it's 20 years since I last voted with any enthusiasm in a GE.

[Sotv]

Questions…

Do many working class people in the Midlands and North have a degree? 

Why does gaining a higher education mean their views are no longer as valid about the area they may still live in and have grown up in? It seems a rather weak argument to say all graduates leave their community, town or city as soon as they gain their degree. It’s also at odds with members of this government declaring many degrees are not worth taking because they don’t offer well paid jobs at the end of the course (not sure you measure education simply on the binary argument does it make me well off but that’s the current mindset sadly). 

Do those on the leave side not throw insults around? I must have missed the polite discourse between the two sides. 

Are those without degrees / higher education qualifications not influenced by others outside of their peer group? I only ask as the argument seems to be those who are educated are influenced by a small group of elites. It’s not made clear if this accusation can be equally laid at the door of those on the other side of the argument? 

How has the leave side of the argument attempted to bring nearly half the population with them, with regards to Brexit or wider issues that divide the country? Have they been the better people, more magnanimous? Does the line ‘you lost get over it’ ring a bell? 

Has the government tried to bring people together or looked to divide and blame groups of people whenever they feel any political heat?

Is the centre right author simply perpetuating the divide within society by only seemingly criticising one side of the argument? 

When austerity was decimating public services (still is) for the poorest and most vulnerable were the posters portraying themselves as caring about the working class, campaigning against them? Or were they campaigning for, endorsing them or staying silent over them at best? 

Put up or shut up

you've clearly read the original article with one eye. Your attempts at misdirection and lies about what the author has written are so obvious its pitiful. 
As i say, this has really touched a nerve for some

---

There's a conundrum where the so-called 'Red wall' is concerned - one the centrists in both of the main parties should be considering. Are the reasons for abandoning Labour the same as those for embracing the Tories? My guess it's bit more complicated than that, and some of it may be indicative of nothing more than the Hobson's Choice effect of our enduring two-party system.

I don't know about anybody else on here, but it's 20 years since I last voted with any enthusiasm in a GE.

You raise a very good point about red wall voters. 
I don't think the reasons for abandoning Labour are the same as why they voted for the Tories. I can imagine a lot of those who switched were going to the ballot box holding their noses but decided they could no longer vote for a party where may supporters have engaged in the kind of insulting discourse we have seen on social media for instance. 
It's telling that the author makes the point that unless the Tories deliver on their levelling up agenda, then their majority will disappear or at least be greatly reduced. 
If the tories fail to deliver and working class voters continue to see Labour as a party of metropolitan elites, this creates a dangerous vacuum ripe for exploitation. 
Chuck in a few incidents that have the potential to stoke racial tensions or at least exploit them in some of the ex mill towns for example and we could be heading for a very nasty situation indeed.

[Derek Hardballs]

Questions…

Do many working class people in the Midlands and North have a degree? 

Why does gaining a higher education mean their views are no longer as valid about the area they may still live in and have grown up in? It seems a rather weak argument to say all graduates leave their community, town or city as soon as they gain their degree. It’s also at odds with members of this government declaring many degrees are not worth taking because they don’t offer well paid jobs at the end of the course (not sure you measure education simply on the binary argument does it make me well off but that’s the current mindset sadly). 

Do those on the leave side not throw insults around? I must have missed the polite discourse between the two sides. 

Are those without degrees / higher education qualifications not influenced by others outside of their peer group? I only ask as the argument seems to be those who are educated are influenced by a small group of elites. It’s not made clear if this accusation can be equally laid at the door of those on the other side of the argument? 

How has the leave side of the argument attempted to bring nearly half the population with them, with regards to Brexit or wider issues that divide the country? Have they been the better people, more magnanimous? Does the line ‘you lost get over it’ ring a bell? 

Has the government tried to bring people together or looked to divide and blame groups of people whenever they feel any political heat?

Is the centre right author simply perpetuating the divide within society by only seemingly criticising one side of the argument? 

When austerity was decimating public services (still is) for the poorest and most vulnerable were the posters portraying themselves as caring about the working class, campaigning against them? Or were they campaigning for, endorsing them or staying silent over them at best? 

Put up or shut up

you've clearly read the original article with one eye. Your attempts at misdirection and lies about what the author has written are so obvious its pitiful. 
As i say, this has really touched a nerve for some

---

There's a conundrum where the so-called 'Red wall' is concerned - one the centrists in both of the main parties should be considering. Are the reasons for abandoning Labour the same as those for embracing the Tories? My guess it's bit more complicated than that, and some of it may be indicative of nothing more than the Hobson's Choice effect of our enduring two-party system.

I don't know about anybody else on here, but it's 20 years since I last voted with any enthusiasm in a GE.

You raise a very good point about red wall voters. 
I don't think the reasons for abandoning Labour are the same as why they voted for the Tories. I can imagine a lot of those who switched were going to the ballot box holding their noses but decided they could no longer vote for a party where may supporters have engaged in the kind of insulting discourse we have seen on social media for instance. 
It's telling that the author makes the point that unless the Tories deliver on their levelling up agenda, then their majority will disappear or at least be greatly reduced. 
If the tories fail to deliver and working class voters continue to see Labour as a party of metropolitan elites, this creates a dangerous vacuum ripe for exploitation. 
Chuck in a few incidents that have the potential to stoke racial tensions or at least exploit them in some of the ex mill towns for example and we could be heading for a very nasty situation indeed.

Try answering the questions instead of trying to make this personal.

“And that brings me to the last and greatest group of male culprits. Most of these single mothers have had the common sense to detect that the modern British male is useless.

“If he is blue collar, he is likely to be drunk, criminal, aimless, feckless and hopeless, and perhaps claiming to suffer from low self-esteem brought on by unemployment.

“If he is white collar, he is likely to be little better.”

[JOK]

“Try answering the questions instead of trying to make this personal.”      ARF ARF ARF ARF    ARF. 

“Why does gaining a higher education mean their views are no longer as valid “.  Why does not having a degree make a person’s view less valid on the E.U.?

“The modern British male is useless.”.
What, even more useless than the selfish, planet destroying and racist Boomer generation? Are you not a modern male? Fancy a ‘right on’ socially aware and responsible person resorting to such a wide sweeping generalisation.