HGV driver shortages
#21
(09-25-2021, 09:06 AM)Pipkins Wrote:
(07-05-2021, 10:42 AM)Protheroe Wrote:
(07-05-2021, 10:26 AM)Shabby Russian Wrote: Probably needs to ask why are the wages low?

I think I've answered that often enough, but at the risk of repeating myself:

1. Unlimited supply of labour from Eastern Europe, Spain & Portugal willing to put up with awful wages, hours and conditions as they're still better than work at home / unemployment at home.
2. Crap wages can often be supplemented by tax credits / child benefit which means the State is subsidising companies who pay poverty wages.
3. Too many companies exist who only make a profit by paying crap wages.
4. Too few companies will invest in automation whilst wages are so low.
5. We're too eager to accept all of the above to keep supermarket prices cheap.

Exactly

Dont remember Tesco & co moaning when they announced record profits over the last 20 years

Tesco was singled out for special criticism in the latest issue of Private Eye for their poor treatment of drivers. There's a reason a load have quit over the years.
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#22
The Spirit of Free Enterprise sunk, appropriately, in the Channel several years ago.
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#23
(09-27-2021, 01:27 PM)Baggybenny Wrote: The Spirit of Free Enterprise sunk, appropriately, in the Channel several years ago.

The Herald Of Free Enterprise that was. One of the lads who I played cricket with at Belbroughton was on it.
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#24
(09-25-2021, 07:09 AM)baggy1 Wrote: Check out the ages of those with HGV licences

If a driver over the age of 45 years of age does not pass a medical, every 5 years,  the licence is no longer valid.  The figure quotes current, ‘Valid’ licences. Age is not relevant.

Every 5 years an HGV driver must complete their ‘Driver Certificate of Professional Competency’ and under go a certain number of hours of training or the licence is invalid. Age is not relevant.
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#25
There are different figures being quoted from the same sources that I have seen JOK and using simple numbers doesn't prove anything without the detail behind it. 516k is a figure I have seen which seems in line with yours and that is also from the RHA, but not all of them will be available for HGV driving, some will probably hold multiple licences and be driving PSV instead. Some will have simply gone into another industry entirely.

The basic fact is this, forget about the petrol tanker drivers - that is just a blip and noise, we don't have enough available HGV drivers that want to work in the industry. One of those reasons is Brexit, another factor here is IR35 - both of those were introduced by this government and clearly there was no view to the impact they would have. This isn't simply about wages and conditions, although both of those will also have a major impact - I wouldn't want to work in an industry where I had to sleep in lay-bys and take a shit in a field because there isn't the infrastructure in place facilitate lorries and their drivers. These points were made before and separately to Brexit and have been ignored by the government. 

If you want to understand why we idon'thave enough drivers you need to look at a raft of issues and the one recurring theme in at all is lack of government intervention or planning until it is too late.
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#26
(09-29-2021, 10:15 AM)baggy1 Wrote: There are different figures being quoted from the same sources that I have seen JOK and using simple numbers doesn't prove anything without the detail behind it. 516k is a figure I have seen which seems in line with yours and that is also from the RHA, but not all of them will be available for HGV driving, some will probably hold multiple licences and be driving PSV instead. Some will have simply gone into another industry entirely.

The basic fact is this, forget about the petrol tanker drivers - that is just a blip and noise, we don't have enough available HGV drivers that want to work in the industry. One of those reasons is Brexit, another factor here is IR35 - both of those were introduced by this government and clearly there was no view to the impact they would have. This isn't simply about wages and conditions, although both of those will also have a major impact - I wouldn't want to work in an industry where I had to sleep in lay-bys and take a shit in a field because there isn't the infrastructure in place facilitate lorries and their drivers. These points were made before and separately to Brexit and have been ignored by the government. 

If you want to understand why we idon'thave enough drivers you need to look at a raft of issues and the one recurring theme in at all is lack of government intervention or planning until it is too late.

Just to be pedantic - IR35 was introduced in 1999 under a Labour government - this government transferred responsibility for it's admin from the contractor to companies
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#27
Fair point SM - and rightly closed a loop hole that was being exploited IMO, but there were always going to be knock on effects from that which weren't considered. Or if they were then they weren't acted upon as is being shown now.
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#28
(09-29-2021, 10:29 AM)baggy1 Wrote: Fair point SM - and rightly closed a loop hole that was being exploited IMO, but there were always going to be knock on effects from that which weren't considered. Or if they were then they weren't acted upon as is being shown now.

I'm quite happy to criticise this government, they are doing an absolutely chite job. I certainly won't be voting for them again but who the hell do you vote for - they are all locked away in their own little worlds with, from what  I can see, a majority of people who seem to have no one to represent them. 

However they cannot control private companies such as haulage firms and I have said before that they have had 5 years to make the haulage jobs more  desirable, with better conditions and pay and train people. Instead of taking  a gradual reduction of EU drivers over that time while they implemented change they sat on their hands and did nothing. Now they are asking for temporary visas while they train more drivers, they have had 5 bloody years to do that - it's pathetic. 

If we can't rely on private companies to provide the services that the entire country rely on then we need to think again about what we do with essential services.
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#29
(09-29-2021, 10:44 AM)strawman Wrote:
(09-29-2021, 10:29 AM)baggy1 Wrote: Fair point SM - and rightly closed a loop hole that was being exploited IMO, but there were always going to be knock on effects from that which weren't considered. Or if they were then they weren't acted upon as is being shown now.

I'm quite happy to criticise this government, they are doing an absolutely chite job. I certainly won't be voting for them again but who the hell do you vote for - they are all locked away in their own little worlds with, from what  I can see, a majority of people who seem to have no one to represent them. 

However they cannot control private companies such as haulage firms and I have said before that they have had 5 years to make the haulage jobs more  desirable, with better conditions and pay and train people. Instead of taking  a gradual reduction of EU drivers over that time while they implemented change they sat on their hands and did nothing. Now they are asking for temporary visas while they train more drivers, they have had 5 bloody years to do that - it's pathetic. 

If we can't rely on private companies to provide the services that the entire country rely on then we need to think again about what we do with essential services.

Those 5 years were full of uncertainty because the government refused to engage with trade bodies or even give a plan as to what was happening. The brinksmanship of 'no deal' has led to all industries running around at the last minute to work out what to do. I've spent those 5 years trying to get new contracts in place with wording fit for having barriers in place, be they tangible barriers (customer borders) or intangible (transfer of data), so God knows what it must have been for companies planning driving across those barriers and the paperwork needed. Brexit was the final straw for a lot of drivers as the hassle to get across into the EU was a nightmare, the government even told them it was going to be a nightmare by having to set up lory parks.

Companies couldn't plan for something they didn't know about, the option was to plan for every eventuality and that takes massive resource to do. Either way both of those issues sit with government.
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#30
(09-29-2021, 10:53 AM)baggy1 Wrote:
(09-29-2021, 10:44 AM)strawman Wrote:
(09-29-2021, 10:29 AM)baggy1 Wrote: Fair point SM - and rightly closed a loop hole that was being exploited IMO, but there were always going to be knock on effects from that which weren't considered. Or if they were then they weren't acted upon as is being shown now.

I'm quite happy to criticise this government, they are doing an absolutely chite job. I certainly won't be voting for them again but who the hell do you vote for - they are all locked away in their own little worlds with, from what  I can see, a majority of people who seem to have no one to represent them. 

However they cannot control private companies such as haulage firms and I have said before that they have had 5 years to make the haulage jobs more  desirable, with better conditions and pay and train people. Instead of taking  a gradual reduction of EU drivers over that time while they implemented change they sat on their hands and did nothing. Now they are asking for temporary visas while they train more drivers, they have had 5 bloody years to do that - it's pathetic. 

If we can't rely on private companies to provide the services that the entire country rely on then we need to think again about what we do with essential services.

Those 5 years were full of uncertainty because the government refused to engage with trade bodies or even give a plan as to what was happening. The brinksmanship of 'no deal' has led to all industries running around at the last minute to work out what to do. I've spent those 5 years trying to get new contracts in place with wording fit for having barriers in place, be they tangible barriers (customer borders) or intangible (transfer of data), so God knows what it must have been for companies planning driving across those barriers and the paperwork needed. Brexit was the final straw for a lot of drivers as the hassle to get across into the EU was a nightmare, the government even told them it was going to be a nightmare by having to set up lory parks.

Companies couldn't plan for something they didn't know about, the option was to plan for every eventuality and that takes massive resource to do. Either way both of those issues sit with government.

Nail on head.
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