Covid Vaccination ID
#41
(02-22-2021, 06:57 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Where have I said anything about lockdown? This was about vaccination and why people refuse to have it and the wider implication potentially to society if the vaccine is proven to reduce infection rates amongst the population. Lockdown has prevented many deaths but no one wants it to last any longer than it has to and perhaps if we had been quicker and locked down harder at the beginning we would be living a normalish life now.

Oh, sorry. I agree. Everyone who can should get the vaccine
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#42
(02-22-2021, 07:25 PM)Borin' Baggie Wrote:
(02-22-2021, 06:57 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(02-22-2021, 05:37 PM)Borin' Baggie Wrote:
(02-22-2021, 05:20 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: You see when everyone starts banging on about their civil liberties they never mention their civil responsibilities? Waah I won' to do that it's not fair I wanna do what I want, when I want, all the time, I'm not doing it it's not fair... slam door!

I haven't seen my granddad in person in fucking ages, nor any of my friends since March. I have been doing my duty during this pandemic, I will continue to do so and I will get a vaccine when it is eventually offered to me. I just don't think it's fair to treat people as second class citizens and deny them from doing things that other people can based on their age, health or if they have medical issues that prevent them from getting vaccinated.

 No one has said that there won’t be understandable exceptions and I’m not sure it’s something that will work in practice. My main gripe is with people in health and care who refuse the vaccine who are perfectly well and are looking after potentially people who aren’t and who can’t get vaccinated.


But this has nothing to do with the point that our Prime Minister said in the Commons today that he was looking at "Covid Status Certificates" to reopen the hospitality sector early. When the government's' own estimates suggests that 66% of the population will be vaccinated if there is full uptake that is a basically treating 34% of the population as second class citizens for something that is out of their control, and that 66% includes many people who won't be receiving a vaccine for bloody ages as they are young and have no or minimal underlying health conditions.

If there’s any common sense, they have to combine it with rapid testing for those who hadn’t had the vaccine. Surely.
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#43
Explain to me how an unvaccinated person sitting in a theatre that is or may be full is anyone’s idea of a good idea. I don’t see how you can test the audience - potentially hundreds - prior to curtain up. As someone who is affected specifically in this field - ‘hospitality’ - by this I don’t see this as a restriction on Liberty I see it as safeguarding the public and those working in arts and entertainment. Greece has announced today it won’t let Israeli tourists in without proof of vaccination. Try complaining to the Greek govt about an abrogation of your civil rights- and they won’t be the last.
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#44
Vacination passports will be essential if your going abroad no different to a PCR test when you go because that won't go away for a bit.
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#45
(02-22-2021, 07:48 PM)Brentbaggie Wrote: Explain to me how an unvaccinated person sitting in a theatre that is or may be full is anyone’s idea of a good idea. I don’t see how you can test the audience - potentially hundreds - prior to curtain up. As someone who is affected specifically in this field - ‘hospitality’ - by this I don’t see this as a restriction on Liberty I see it as safeguarding the public and those working in arts and entertainment. Greece has announced today it won’t let Israeli tourists in without proof of vaccination. Try complaining to the Greek govt about an abrogation of your civil rights- and they won’t be the last.

Well not everyone will be able to get the vaccine by the time theatres reopen, so there’ll have to be some way. But I presume if 80% have had the vaccine, not that many need testing on the way in? Or we just live with the risk like in the past with viruses (with those worried having been vaccinated)? They’re the only two options as far as I can see.

(02-22-2021, 08:57 PM)Brentbaggie Wrote: How will you know which of the 80% has had the vaccine without proof? And how will you be sure the audience is composed of at least 80% vaccers? I don’t mean to be obtuse but I think the simplest answer is the easiest one. No vaccine - unless there is a medical exemption - no entry. Harsh but as I say if countries can deny travel, why should theatregoers (as an example) be put at risk? I should add that I think this is a medium term fix and that. As you say, in the long term we will end up just having to live with the virus. But I don’t see what special right people who claim it IS their right to refuse a vaccine have over the rest of society.

With a vaccine record of some sort, then for the remaining people, test them?

I disagree on the no vaccine no entry. It’s never been like that fur the flu jab. If people are vulnerable they can get the jab. I know it’s not flu! But that’s my onions.
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#46
How will you know which of the 80% has had the vaccine without proof? And how will you be sure the audience is composed of at least 80% vaccers? I don’t mean to be obtuse but I think the simplest answer is the easiest one. No vaccine - unless there is a medical exemption - no entry. Harsh but as I say if countries can deny travel, why should theatregoers (as an example) be put at risk? I should add that I think this is a medium term fix and that. As you say, in the long term we will end up just having to live with the virus. But I don’t see what special right people who claim it IS their right to refuse a vaccine have over the rest of society.
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#47
(02-22-2021, 07:48 PM)Brentbaggie Wrote: Explain to me how an unvaccinated person sitting in a theatre that is or may be full is anyone’s idea of a good idea. I don’t see how you can test the audience - potentially hundreds - prior to curtain up. As someone who is affected specifically in this field - ‘hospitality’ - by this I don’t see this as a restriction on Liberty I see it as safeguarding the public and those working in arts and entertainment. Greece has announced today it won’t let Israeli tourists in without proof of vaccination. Try complaining to the Greek govt about an abrogation of your civil rights- and they won’t be the last.

Well not everyone will be able to get the vaccine by the time theatres reopen, so there’ll have to be some way. But I presume if 80% have had the vaccine, not that many need testing on the way in? Or we just live with the risk like in the past with viruses (with those worried having been vaccinated)? They’re the only two options as far as I can see.

(02-22-2021, 08:57 PM)Brentbaggie Wrote: How will you know which of the 80% has had the vaccine without proof? And how will you be sure the audience is composed of at least 80% vaccers? I don’t mean to be obtuse but I think the simplest answer is the easiest one. No vaccine - unless there is a medical exemption - no entry. Harsh but as I say if countries can deny travel, why should theatregoers (as an example) be put at risk? I should add that I think this is a medium term fix and that. As you say, in the long term we will end up just having to live with the virus. But I don’t see what special right people who claim it IS their right to refuse a vaccine have over the rest of society.

With a vaccine record of some sort, then for the remaining people, test them?

I disagree on the no vaccine no entry. It’s never been like that fur the flu jab. If people are vulnerable they can get the jab. I know it’s not flu! It’s worse. But the principle is the same IMO. That’s my onions.

But I’d have thought rapid testing could leave everyone happy and no one disadvantaged.
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#48
The difference is if you have flu you pretty much know about it pretty quickly. You are highly unlikely to be asymptomatic with flu and will certainly not want to go to the theatre.
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#49
(02-22-2021, 09:27 PM)Brentbaggie Wrote: The difference is if you have flu you pretty much know about it pretty quickly.  You are highly unlikely to be asymptomatic with flu and will certainly not want to go to the theatre.

Fair enough if true, but the principle remains the same that those at risk get vaccinated but there’s never been pressure on others to.

I think rapid testing in conjunction with a vaccine record should be enough and keep everyone satisfied.

I’m fairly sure there can be a couple of days where symptoms of flu haven’t come out yet but you’re contagious too, so there’s still similarities.

I think it’s also worth remembering you can still get covid after having the vaccine, and you can still pass it on. One of my mrs’s mate’s who is a nurse in Leeds has literally done that, and she had her first Pfizer jab. Nothing in life is without risk. I do think covid has got some people a little OTT with trying to achieve zero risk in life. This is about the NHS not being over run IMO. If enough are vaccinated to ensure that doesn’t happen, I believe we take our own risks, as we always have done, to a certain degree. Vaccines to 100% of a theatre don’t provide a totally risk free environment anyway.
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#50
You're probably right and of course flu does kill. But it's not COVID. I'd like to say that principles matter but if someone does knowingly go to the theatre with the illness and causes an outbreak, what then? Will they be held accountable or will it be, well this is no different to flu? I wonder. Seriously I wonder.
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