Brexit gains.
#81
Let's not get onto a debate about working hours please. France has a stautory 35-hour working week, yet employees work on average over 40. The average number of hours worked in the UK has been on a downward trend for decades and has been pretty constant since the late 1980s.

Where the number of hours worked has an impact on employee or client safety then by all means set a limit.

Where that's not the case who are the government (or unions) to decide how many hours you or I wish to work?

Ed Miliband's comment is typical twattery.
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#82
(01-15-2021, 08:54 AM)ChamonixBaggie Wrote: In what universe will these "help both companies and employees"? This will lead to the re-introduction of a culture of expected overtime and people who don't wish to work longer hours being frozen out of the job market. It's clearly exploitative. In the digital age, the average hours for a working week should be decreasing not increasing.

Kilcoyne can piss off as well, he's the one that needs a straitjacket.

"we have no intention of lowering workers rights" says the government as it unveils plans to lower workers rights. You couldn't make it up.

(01-15-2021, 01:26 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: I put the article up as a talking point. My opinion wasn’t given.

If you want my opinion I think the government will look to deregulate working practices and workers rights over a number of years. It wont be quick as people don’t like change and it will be dressed up as freedom of choice. The cap doffers will cheer loudly no matter how adversely it affects them. This is the way!

(01-15-2021, 04:57 PM)Protheroe Wrote: Let's not get onto a debate about working hours please. France has a stautory 35-hour working week, yet employees work on average over 40. The average number of hours worked in the UK has been on a downward trend for decades and has been pretty constant since the late 1980s.

Where the number of hours worked has an impact on employee or client safety then by all means set a limit.

Where that's not the case who are the government (or unions) to decide how many hours you or I wish to work?

Ed Miliband's comment is typical twattery.

Arf... who knew!
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#83
Who the Hell are you / the unions / the government to decide how many hours someone else should work?

I think workers need protection from people like you.
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#84
(Yesterday, 11:31 AM)Protheroe Wrote: Who the Hell are you / the unions / the government to decide how many hours someone else should work?

I think workers need protection from people like you.

Why, what am I going to do to them?
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#85
 
    Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin Rolleyes      “I put the article up as a talking point.”   Yeh, right.
 
If that hadn’t been written by someone who has spent the last four years banging on about, in his view, that Brexit and a Tory government were going to reboot UK workers rights back to the 18th century, I might have believed it.
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#86
The U.K. has 15% of workers working 48 hours or more per week.
 
5 states  in the EU (inc. U.K. at the time) have a ‘generalised’ use of opt out. 3 of those states have a bigger % of workers over 48 hours than the U.K.
 
12 States have not opted out of the EWTD but 5 of those states still have over 15% of their workforce working 48hours or more.
 
11 States have a ‘limited’ use of the opt out. 6 of those have a higher % of workers over 48 hours than the UK. (Germany 12%, Belgium 13%, Netherlands 14% and Spain 15%.)
(Latest figures I could find)
 
So, the great shining example of all things EU, Germany, is not much better than the draconian U.K. when it comes to ‘protecting’ its workers. It also shows that the great Utopian EU does not ‘protect’ workers’ Rights either.
 
Having said all that, no one should be forced to work over 48 hours (unless they wish to, as overtime) though I’m undecided if overtime should be used in the calculation for holiday pay or days. Hopefully, if those ‘suggestions’ get as far as even a Green Paper there should be extensive lobbying of MPs and ministers, especially those in the ex-Red Wall, to try and ensure they don’t make the White Paper. But, again, let’s wait and see what the actual outcome is before manning the barricades.
 
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/301231087_Opting_out_of_the_European_Working_Time_Directive
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#87
Frictionful
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#88
On the working hours point.

The automation singularity is approaching, within 20 years there will be only enough jobs for roughly half the working age population if it's full time. How do people propose we deal with that?

Whether we like it or not, automation will increase, so you are not going to be able to stifle it.
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#89
(10 hours ago)Birdman1811 Wrote: On the working hours point.

The automation singularity is approaching, within 20 years there will be only enough jobs for roughly half the working age population if it's full time. How do people propose we deal with that?

Whether we like it or not, automation will increase, so you are inot going to be able to stifle it.
It's a good question.

Time for the general public to engage with the idea of the 4 day working week, and how we can implement it without seeing a reduction in living standards for the average UK citizen.

I think this is also the impetus needed to tackle our productivity issues.
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#90
(Yesterday, 11:31 AM)Protheroe Wrote: Who the Hell are you / the unions / the government to decide how many hours someone else should work?

Those arguments, and others like them, are fine as long as all parties can be trusted to play nicely; but often they can't, which then renders the arguments spurious.

Light touch regulation presupposes a measure of restraint will accompany the freedom to operate; unfortunately - as the bankers proved - sometimes those who argue most enthusiastically for a deregulated environment are the last people who can be trusted with that privilege. 

Do trade unions sometimes become obstructive to the point where industrial relations legislation has to be invoked? Yes. Do trade unions sometimes become obstructive because unscrupulous employers wilfully push beyond the limits of responsible industrial relations? Again, yes. Cause and effect - social history is moving footage, not snapshots taken at a convenient moment in time. 

As long as the financial services sector can torpedo the economy (knowing that it's okay - the client press will blame the Labour government!), high street retailers can arrange to look the other way when it comes to UK domiciled sweatshops in their supply chain, migrant cockle pickers can be trapped by a rising tide on a Lancashire beach, working practices - hours included - will never just be a matter of liberalisation and trust.

Context is everything.
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