Brexit gains.
(06-09-2021, 02:27 PM)Protheroe Wrote:
(06-09-2021, 08:56 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: they just realised that remaining was better for them than leaving on balance

I've corrected that for you. I'd never criticise Remainers for their enlightened self interest. It's a pity Remainers never return the compliment.

Problem with that Proth is that there would have been a number that went with changing the current situation because the future promised state was going to be ok (easiest deal ever, over ready deal). If honesty would have been the message, look it's going to be shit for a while but it might be better in the future, then I suspect the numbers voting to leave would have been lower, and it only needed 600k to vote differently or 1.2M not to bother and we wouldn't be in this shitshow.
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(06-09-2021, 02:57 PM)baggy1 Wrote: Problem with that Proth is that there would have been a number that went with changing the current situation because the future promised state was going to be ok (easiest deal ever, over ready deal). If honesty would have been the message, look it's going to be shit for a while but it might be better in the future, then I suspect the numbers voting to leave would have been lower, and it only needed 600k to vote differently or 1.2M not to bother and we wouldn't be in this shitshow.

We'll never know, wiil we?

Perhaps Leave voters by and large didn't look through a Thatcherite prism of personal gain at the Referendum as much as Remainers did.

And to be fair, as I said on here before and after the Referendum - for the average Joe very little, if anything, has changed. I'm a little bit pissed off that it's not so easy to sell my car parts to EU countries, but it's no more difficult now than when I sent a gearbox to Norway - and far easier than when I sent an exhaust to Israel. But every time I hear an EU appratchik pontificate on Brexit  I'm ever more comforted in the belief that I made the right decision.

Here's a predicton for you too - the Northern Irish Protocol will never be fully implemented during my lifetime, the EU will never place trade sanctions on the UK because of it and it will quietly be forgotten as business as usual reigns (with the odd poltically motivated flare up). It'll be a great example of the "flexibility" one poster claims the EU is famous for.
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(06-09-2021, 02:27 PM)Protheroe Wrote:
(06-09-2021, 08:56 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: they just realised that remaining was better for them than leaving on balance

I've corrected that for you. I'd never criticise Remainers for their enlightened self interest. It's a pity Remainers never return the compliment.

Who is it better for? Other than the very rich avoiding tax?
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(06-09-2021, 05:42 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(06-09-2021, 02:27 PM)Protheroe Wrote:
(06-09-2021, 08:56 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: they just realised that remaining was better for them than leaving on balance

I've corrected that for you. I'd never criticise Remainers for their enlightened self interest. It's a pity Remainers never return the compliment.

Who is it better for? Other than the very rich avoiding tax?
It’s better already for those of us who never wanted to be part of an undemocratic superstate. Particularly now we’ve seen their true colours.
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(06-09-2021, 10:53 PM)Protheroe Wrote:
(06-09-2021, 05:42 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(06-09-2021, 02:27 PM)Protheroe Wrote:
(06-09-2021, 08:56 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: they just realised that remaining was better for them than leaving on balance

I've corrected that for you. I'd never criticise Remainers for their enlightened self interest. It's a pity Remainers never return the compliment.

Who is it better for? Other than the very rich avoiding tax?
It’s better already for those of us who never wanted to be part of an undemocratic superstate. Particularly now we’ve seen their true colours.

Arf the cop out answer and the obligatory the EU are being mean in two short sentences  Big Grin
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(06-09-2021, 11:34 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(06-09-2021, 10:53 PM)Protheroe Wrote:
(06-09-2021, 05:42 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Who is it better for? Other than the very rich avoiding tax?
It’s better already for those of us who never wanted to be part of an undemocratic superstate. Particularly now we’ve seen their true colours.

Arf the cop out answer and the obligatory the EU are being mean in two short sentences  Big Grin

Bigger arf. the usual dismissive response from someone who can’t understand that not everyone is as selfish, self centred and mercenary as you and refuses to acknowledge that his precious supper state isn’t all sweetness and light, liberal and compassionate as you try to make out.

Any answers yet?

(06-09-2021, 02:57 PM)baggy1 Wrote:
(06-09-2021, 02:27 PM)Protheroe Wrote:
(06-09-2021, 08:56 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: they just realised that remaining was better for them than leaving on balance

I've corrected that for you. I'd never criticise Remainers for their enlightened self interest. It's a pity Remainers never return the compliment.

Problem with that Proth is that there would have been a number that went with changing the current situation because the future promised state was going to be ok (easiest deal ever, over ready deal). If honesty would have been the message, look it's going to be shit for a while but it might be better in the future, then I suspect the numbers voting to leave would have been lower, and it only needed 600k to vote differently or 1.2M not to bother and we wouldn't be in this shitshow.

The phrase “oven ready deal” wasn’t used in the referendum campaign! Wasn’t it used in the 2019 GE?
And on the other side B1,  talking of honesty, what happened to the ‘It takes 10 years to negotiate a trade deal’? ‘Will need an emergency budget within weeks’ ‘will need visas for holidays in Majorca’ etc. 
Do you not give, even a few, leave voters any credit for realising Rome wasn’t built in a day?
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Absolutely JOK, my point is that there will be a large number that did understand (bound to be in 18M people) however the margins were so small (600k swing needed) that there were enough people that took it as read that it would be easy and voted accordingly. Given that opportunity again they wouldn't have voted the same way, which is why the leavers were so adamant that they didn't want the final agreement ratified by a public vote.

And on the trade deal, it is worse than what we had in so much as we have customs costs on top of what we had.
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(06-10-2021, 01:29 PM)JOK Wrote: Bigger arf. the usual dismissive response from someone who can’t understand that not everyone is as selfish, self centred and mercenary as you and refuses to acknowledge that his precious supper state isn’t all sweetness and light, liberal and compassionate as you try to make out.

It is interesting that zealous Remainers adopt this uber-Thatcherite stance of what's in in for me? It explains an awful lot. It explains why they're so disdainful of the views of the C's D's & E's who were most exposed to the immigration, cultural transformation, neo-liberalism and austerity personified by the EU (and Cameron) to which they'd never consented.
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Ah so austerity was down to the EU now, explains a lot. Nothing to do with the austerity programme launched by the Tory government. The great rewrite begins Big Grin
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(06-10-2021, 02:24 PM)baggy1 Wrote: Ah so austerity was down to the EU now, explains a lot. Nothing to do with the austerity programme launched by the Tory government. The great rewrite begins Big Grin

You obviously can't read, can you?
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