Brexit gains.
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(06-06-2021, 09:53 AM)baggy1 Wrote: The problem is JOK that we knew this before we decided to leave, and as said before you will say 'well why do we want to be part of that' and you are right but the problem was we were part of it. We basically were in a partitioned room with a big dog that protected us from the outside world, we removed that partition and are moaning that the dog is looking like it's about to bite us.

So, B1, what you’re saying is that ‘Vindictive’ is a guard dog, roaming around the perimeter barbed wire fence trying to ensure there are no escapes. Are we supposed to just be a suppliant and stay locked in? I, for one, am happy to risk a bite on the bum to get away but the dog handlers should be prepared for us to carry an electric cattle prod and use it if we do get bitten.
You are, of coarse, correct. We did know this would be the E.U.s attitude and it has come as no surprise. It was clear from day one when they joined in with ‘Project Fear’.
They had to really. Everyone and his dog knew they couldn’t afford (literally) for Brexit to go ahead an so needed to demonstrate it’s bullying and vindictiveness as a warning to other states with burgeoning ‘exit’ parties.
Having tunnelled our way out all we need to do now is get to the Swiss border (apt metaphor considering their decision recently) so we can re-join the world fray.

Now, where’s my James Coburn costume and push bike? (Yes I know it should be Spain but that doesn’t work with this analogy, obviously)
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(06-07-2021, 03:08 PM)JOK Wrote:
(06-06-2021, 09:53 AM)baggy1 Wrote: The problem is JOK that we knew this before we decided to leave, and as said before you will say 'well why do we want to be part of that' and you are right but the problem was we were part of it. We basically were in a partitioned room with a big dog that protected us from the outside world, we removed that partition and are moaning that the dog is looking like it's about to bite us.

So, B1, what you’re saying is that ‘Vindictive’ is a guard dog, roaming around the perimeter barbed wire fence trying to ensure there are no escapes. Are we supposed to just be a suppliant and stay locked in? I, for one, am happy to risk a bite on the bum to get away but the dog handlers should be prepared for us to carry an electric cattle prod and use it if we do get bitten.
You are, of coarse, correct. We did know this would be the E.U.s attitude and it has come as no surprise. It was clear from day one when they joined in with ‘Project Fear’.
They had to really. Everyone and his dog knew they couldn’t afford (literally) for Brexit to go ahead an so needed to demonstrate it’s bullying and vindictiveness as a warning to other states with burgeoning ‘exit’ parties.
Having tunnelled our way out all we need to do now is get to the Swiss border (apt metaphor considering their decision recently) so we can re-join the world fray.

Now, where’s my James Coburn costume and push bike? (Yes I know it should be Spain but that doesn’t work with this analogy, obviously)

Boris I can easily believe probably mixing up James Coburn with Steve McQueen - once again a promise not matching reality - but I'm surprised at you doing it.  Big Grin
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(06-06-2021, 09:03 AM)JOK Wrote: Why, having provide a fifth of the development cost for the GPS system, we are not allowed to use it when states, still in the EU, who haven’t contributed a penny can? Switzerland now also has access after chucking in 80 million euro.

Swiss (and Norwegian) access to Galileo is a) not comparable to that of EU member states b) subject to rules that the UK was offered but did not want to agree to as a third country and c) not the level of access we were asking for.

We wanted access to the encrypted system, only EU member states have access to that system as it's a security risk (only the US has access to the encrypted GPS systems). We were offered the same access that Norway and Switzerland have to Galileo which would cover procurement contracts but decided against it.

How is that the EU's fault?
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(06-07-2021, 03:16 PM)Brentbaggie Wrote:
(06-07-2021, 03:08 PM)JOK Wrote:
(06-06-2021, 09:53 AM)baggy1 Wrote: The problem is JOK that we knew this before we decided to leave, and as said before you will say 'well why do we want to be part of that' and you are right but the problem was we were part of it. We basically were in a partitioned room with a big dog that protected us from the outside world, we removed that partition and are moaning that the dog is looking like it's about to bite us.

So, B1, what you’re saying is that ‘Vindictive’ is a guard dog, roaming around the perimeter barbed wire fence trying to ensure there are no escapes. Are we supposed to just be a suppliant and stay locked in? I, for one, am happy to risk a bite on the bum to get away but the dog handlers should be prepared for us to carry an electric cattle prod and use it if we do get bitten.
You are, of coarse, correct. We did know this would be the E.U.s attitude and it has come as no surprise. It was clear from day one when they joined in with ‘Project Fear’.
They had to really. Everyone and his dog knew they couldn’t afford (literally) for Brexit to go ahead an so needed to demonstrate it’s bullying and vindictiveness as a warning to other states with burgeoning ‘exit’ parties.
Having tunnelled our way out all we need to do now is get to the Swiss border (apt metaphor considering their decision recently) so we can re-join the world fray.

Now, where’s my James Coburn costume and push bike? (Yes I know it should be Spain but that doesn’t work with this analogy, obviously)

Boris I can easily believe probably mixing up James Coburn with Steve McQueen - once again a promise not matching reality - but I'm surprised at you doing it.  Big Grin
Yes, but I did it intentionally. Bozza would have probably used the James Garner / Donald Pleasance scenario.  Angel
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(06-07-2021, 03:32 PM)Borin' Baggie Wrote:
(06-06-2021, 09:03 AM)JOK Wrote: Why, having provide a fifth of the development cost for the GPS system, we are not allowed to use it when states, still in the EU, who haven’t contributed a penny can? Switzerland now also has access after chucking in 80 million euro.

Swiss (and Norwegian) access to Galileo is a) not comparable to that of EU member states b) subject to rules that the UK was offered but did not want to agree to as a third country and c) not the level of access we were asking for.

We wanted access to the encrypted system, only EU member states have access to that system as it's a security risk (only the US has access to the encrypted GPS systems). We were offered the same access that Norway and Switzerland have to Galileo which would cover procurement contracts but decided against it.

How is that the EU's fault?
It is not a question of “fault” but a question of fair play.


So, you buy a fifth share of a pub with some mates in your sports team but because you decide not to play in their team, they declare you are not allowed to use the pub on Friday and Saturday nights, whilst other members of the club, who made no contribution to the purchase, are allowed in anytime they like. Does that sound equitable or fair?

I suppose the U.K.s security trustworthiness is the same as its coastal waters, became dirty instantly at 10:59: 59sec 31/01/2020
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The UK government has been offered use of the Galileo system and the ability to work on procurement contracts on the same terms as Switzerland and Norway, who have also paid in. That sounds perfectly fair to me given we are now a third country. What we (the UK government) wanted is access to encrypted data that is only being shared between the 27 EU member states which is a whole different kettle of fish.

A much better analogy is whether would you give your Wi-Fi password out to your neighbour, which of course you bloody wouldn't.
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If you leave the club, shouting how much better you’re going to be without them, how awful they are and that you’ll be competing with them, don’t be surprised if the other club members close rank, leave you out of the benefits of the club and prefer not to give you a competitive edge. The Vote Leave Government knew this, they bragged about the ‘oven ready deal’ and now they and their supporters are bemoaning how unfair it all is!
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(06-08-2021, 08:55 PM)Borin' Baggie Wrote: The UK government has been offered use of the Galileo system and the ability to work on procurement contracts on the same terms as Switzerland and Norway, who have also paid in. That sounds perfectly fair to me given we are now a third country. What we (the UK government) wanted is access to encrypted data that is only being shared between the 27 EU member states which is a whole different kettle of fish.

A much better analogy is whether would you give your Wi-Fi password out to your neighbour, which of course you bloody wouldn't.

My Neighbours aren’t paying for my Broadband.


The UK invested £1.2bn in Galileo, Switzerland has bunged in €80mil (£70mil -ish)
So, you pay a fifth of the cost to have Fibre Optic cable laid down your street, you’d be happy for 20 of your neighbours, who paid nothing towards it, to use it for free whilst you can only use the basic package?
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So, in the end does this come down to a mean-spirited approach from the EU, or simply poor preparation and/or negotiating skills on the part of the UK?
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