Brexit deal sorted
#11
(12-24-2020, 07:09 PM)Sotv Wrote:
(12-24-2020, 06:59 PM)Borin' Baggie Wrote:
(12-24-2020, 05:45 PM)Sotv Wrote: Seems the EU have conceded far more than we have and there will be quite a few remainacs denying they have made themselves look stupid over the last few years.
Of course the devil is in the detail so I'll wait for those renowned experts Boring, Derek and Chamonix to tell us why we are all wrong.

You've gone through all 2,000 pages then? You're a quick reader.

Just waiting on your typical strawman response to this as a deflection.
Can you point to any other examples of a straw man response of mine or are you employing a straw man argument yourself there? 
Not sure how good you are at reading but seeing as I qualified my remarks with the devil is in the detail, it would appear you may have issues with it. 
Oh hold on,I never claimed to have read 2000 pages of the agreement, could you please provide a definition of what a straw man argument is please, I'm just a thick brexiteer after all...

The time you went on a tirade about me calling the government Nazis when all I did was point out that Jacob Rees-Mogg defended the use of concentration camps in the Boer War, even providing reference to Hansard at the time of the Boer War to show that they were called concentration camps by the UK government at the time. Textbook strawmanning.

I have issues with the lack of services provision, introducing friction in EU-UK trade by virtue of seemingly not removing any non-tariff barriers, not being involved in EASA, EURATOM or Europol, restrictions on visa free travel, no financial services passport, no mutual recognition of professional accreditations, introducing SPS checks, leaving the internal energy market etc. There's also some stuff that might piss off some Brexiteers that I don't care about, like the UK being seemingly beholden to the EU on state aid, not to mention the fish stuff and being subject to the level playing field within the UK.

And, I don't think you're thick for supporting Brexit nor do I think Brexiteers are thick. I think you're thick because you've shown yourself to be monumentally thick.
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#12
(12-24-2020, 07:06 PM)ChamonixBaggie Wrote: By all reports I've seen Britain has conceded more than the EU so I'm not sure where the opposite view is coming from but happy for any links to be provided.  Given the fact that the document hasn't been released yet though its all speculation.

Bilateral free trade is obviously better than No Deal though nothing more than we already had....Still horribly sad to see the end of free movement and schemes like Erasmus. Thats hundreds of British jobs in the travel industry gone and the end of a way of life for many. As far as I'm concerned in all tangible ways Britain is still worse off than as a member of the EU and has spent far more money over the past 4 years dealing with the shitshow than we might save paying our subs.

I'm perfectly happy with who's been making themselves look stupid...

As I said,plenty of remainers who will now deny looking stupid. 
As you say though and as I implied, we went really know what's what until the paper is fully examined.
So what have you seen that leads you to think the UK moved more than the EU? I think there will undoubtedly be areas the EU did better on and the UK on others, politicians need to sell it to their populations after all.
If Boris has got the deal on fishing I have heard , no other red lines crossed and we get a free trade deal then he has really done a great deal. Not that I'd ever expect anyone that has spent the last few years defining themselves in opposition to anything the Tories do to ever admit it.
I read that on fishing they wanted  14 year transition period, we started with 3 and it ended up at 5 and half. Also no deep sea trawlers, no EU courts etc to sort out the end of the fishing deal as the EU wanted. At the end of the 5 years they leave and can only fish in UK waters if we sell them the rights 
Either way the noise I'm hearing from remainers is that of back pedaling from the sky falling in to it being slightly drizzly every 3rd Wednesday
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#13
(12-24-2020, 07:29 PM)Sotv Wrote:
(12-24-2020, 07:06 PM)ChamonixBaggie Wrote: By all reports I've seen Britain has conceded more than the EU so I'm not sure where the opposite view is coming from but happy for any links to be provided.  Given the fact that the document hasn't been released yet though its all speculation.

Bilateral free trade is obviously better than No Deal though nothing more than we already had....Still horribly sad to see the end of free movement and schemes like Erasmus. Thats hundreds of British jobs in the travel industry gone and the end of a way of life for many. As far as I'm concerned in all tangible ways Britain is still worse off than as a member of the EU and has spent far more money over the past 4 years dealing with the shitshow than we might save paying our subs.

I'm perfectly happy with who's been making themselves look stupid...

As I said,plenty of remainers who will now deny looking stupid. 
As you say though and as I implied, we went really know what's what until the paper is fully examined? So what have you seen that leads you to think the UK moved more than the EU? I think there will undoubtedly be areas the EU did better on and the UK on others, politicians need to sell it to their populations after all.If Borishas got the deal on fishing I have heard , no other red lines crossed and we get a free trade deal then he has really done a great deal. 
I read that on fishing they wanted  14 year transition period, we started with 3 and it ended up at 5 and half. Also no deep sea trawlers, no EU courts etc to sort out the end of the fishing deal as the EU wanted. At the end of the 5 years they leave and can only fiah in UL waters if we sell them the rights 
Either way the noise I'm hearing from remainers is that of back pedaling from the sky falling in to it being slightly drizzly every 3rd Wednesday

Drizzly every third Wednesday when it's sunny all the time at present. Any deal would be far better than no deal however any deal isn't as good as what we have now. The deal we have agreed shouldn't be held against the disaster that would have been no deal, it should be compared against what we currently have and as it stands, we stand to lose out.

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/134215...48769?s=19

Useful graphic showing the differences between the deal we have agreed and the previous arrangement. In what way is it better?
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#14
(12-24-2020, 07:38 PM)Ted Maul Wrote: The deal we have agreed should be compared against what we currently have...

Yes, that's the only meaningful comparison to be made.

Some commentators will be worth listening to over the next few days; unfortunately many others will be too busy interrupting guests who might actually have something informative to say.
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#15
Fair play to the EU. Most of the concessions came from them. And fair play to the buffoon. Getting a free trade deal but escaping the political shackles of the EU.
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#16
4 and a half years and still blarting give it up ffs
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#17
After 5 1/2 years the EU can still fish our waters with a 25% reduction in what they catch. Hardly ideal, and will they stick to it?
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#18
(12-26-2020, 06:52 PM)Wayne The Baggie Wrote: After 5 1/2 years the EU can still fish our waters with a 25% reduction in what they catch. Hardly ideal, and will they stick to it?

I don't remember discussions about fish (and Northern Ireland) featuring prominently during the referendum campaign. I am completely pissed off that mine and my children's freedom of movement has been restricted. This deal is better than no deal but it is not better for us than being members of the EU. As soon as we start to diverge from the EUs rules it will enhance the likelihood of a trade war with them, which we will not win because we are considerably smaller than our biggest trading partners (the EU). My hope though is that this will be a jolting to the EU to reform. Then, at a later date, once the Farage's of this world are having their nappies cleaned in their care homes (paid for by my generations taxes) we can rejoin.
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#19
(12-26-2020, 06:47 PM)The liquidator Wrote: 4 and a half years and still blarting give it up ffs

You don't want to know the detail of the plusses and minuses? Fair enough, I'd like to though - preferably in terms I can understand from somebody whose word I can believe.
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#20
(12-26-2020, 07:38 PM)Logic1 Wrote:
(12-26-2020, 06:52 PM)Wayne The Baggie Wrote: After 5 1/2 years the EU can still fish our waters with a 25% reduction in what they catch. Hardly ideal, and will they stick to it?

I don't remember discussions about fish (and Northern Ireland) featuring prominently during the referendum campaign. I am completely pissed off that mine and my children's freedom of movement has been restricted. This deal is better than no deal but it is not better for us than being members of the EU. As soon as we start to diverge from the EUs rules it will enhance the likelihood of a trade war with them, which we will not win because we are considerably smaller than our biggest trading partners (the EU). My hope though is that this will be a jolting to the EU to reform. Then, at a later date, once the Farage's of this world are having their nappies cleaned in their care homes (paid for by my generations taxes) we can rejoin.
Good luck with that! If you mean reforming for the better. The last 53 years have proved contrary to that.

The generation that paid for your education, health care and child allowance, you mean?
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