+- WBAUnofficial (https://wbaunofficial.org.uk)
+-- Forum: WBAUnofficial (https://wbaunofficial.org.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: WBAUnofficial (https://wbaunofficial.org.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Thread: "Creative" centre midfielders... (/showthread.php?tid=23807)
Pages:
1
2
"Creative" centre midfielders... - Lurker#3 - 01-28-2022
I have seen this mentioned quite a lot recently and it got me wondering. What is meant by this? Is it somebody who gets lots of goals and assists from a 6/8 position? If so I was thinking which teams regularly have these players at the forefront of their team?
Liverpool - Nope. They tried to bring Thiago in for this reason, to take them to "the next level", and it disrupted their entire set up and they went back to Henderson and Fabinho ASAP.
Citeh - They play with 6 Creative midfielders, so they do. But they also have the best players in Europe collectively. But tehir 6/8 position is usual filled with Rodri and/or Fenandinho, both steady eddies.
Utd - Nope, Fred and McTominay. They cannot find space for both Fernandes and Pogba in those deeper roles, and they are/were considered some of the worlds best.
Arsenal - Xhaka, Partey, Lokonga - None of which are goal scoring midfielders. They have a 10 in Odegaard of course.
Spurs - Hojbjerg, Skipp, Winks. Again, perhaps winks aside, maybe. None are playmakers. Ndombele, Alli, Lo Celso never play in there etc.
Chelsea - Jorginho and Kante - Nope... Perhaps they do more when Kovacic is fit?
I am not sure the goal scoring, marauding, playmaking CM is in fashion right now sadly. Which I hate as my favourite players over the years have been just that player. Veira, Yaya Toure, Gerrard, Lampard, Paul Scholes.
Perhaps the clamour for us to have "more creativity" from the midfield is just general exacerbation at our lack of final delivery from both our wingbacks and wide forwards, which is more inline with the modern game.
RE: "Creative" centre midfielders... - MassDebater - 01-28-2022
I think it's more that our central two never actually seem to add anything... As was mentioned the other week with Mowatt's red, nothing changed and he wasn't missed. Against PNE only Grady was doing anything from the middle of the park, which is totally where he shouldn't be. I think that's the exacerbation (great word) aimed at our middle pairing(s), they just don't really seem to add much.
RE: "Creative" centre midfielders... - Ted Maul - 01-28-2022
System has to suit the players and vice versa. Val's biggest issue is that he's tried to shoehorn the players we've got into a system that doesn't suit them. But what system does?
Val's way of playing and variants of it have been really successful across Europe in the past few seasons. However, we lack two of the key components to play it effectively. Whilst it doesn't rely on having a '10' it does require midfielders with a good range of passing. Players who can aid transition with quick switches of play once one side of the pitch has been overloaded with the wingback, opposite central midfielder, wide centre half and winger. We do not have this, as a result we play a lot of our sideways football in front of defences and are ridiculously easy to play against.
Think back to the Wolves team that played this way under Nuno - Douglas - N'Diaye - Neves - Doherty - two excellent wing backs and two central midfielders with a great range of passing. Sheffield United under Wilder relied heavily on Ollie Norwood's ability to switch play. Perhaps Mowatt can play this way, but I don't think Livermore does and it's key to making this system a success. It's not tippy-tappy possession football but done correctly it's rips teams apart.
If Val has been promised all the resources he needs in the summer to sign two new midfielders and two new wing backs then it's worth writing this season off as with the right players, this way of playing has been proven to be entertaining and successful. If not, we should either sack him as it's obvious he wont change, or he needs to try something else. The lack of an obvious '10' in our squad makes me think that anyone expecting us to try playing through teams a bit more is going to be disappointed.
RE: "Creative" centre midfielders... - Lurker#3 - 01-28-2022
(01-28-2022, 11:28 AM)Ted Maul Wrote: System has to suit the players and vice versa. Val's biggest issue is that he's tried to shoehorn the players we've got into a system that doesn't suit them. But what system does?
Val's way of playing and variants of it have been really successful across Europe in the past few seasons. However, we lack two of the key components to play it effectively. Whilst it doesn't rely on having a '10' it does require midfielders with a good range of passing. Players who can aid transition with quick switches of play once one side of the pitch has been overloaded with the wingback, opposite central midfielder, wide centre half and winger. We do not have this, as a result we play a lot of our sideways football in front of defences and are ridiculously easy to play against.
Think back to the Wolves team that played this way under Nuno - Douglas - N'Diaye - Neves - Doherty - two excellent wing backs and two central midfielders with a great range of passing. Sheffield United under Wilder relied heavily on Ollie Norwood's ability to switch play. Perhaps Mowatt can play this way, but I don't think Livermore does and it's key to making this system a success. It's not tippy-tappy possession football but done correctly it's rips teams apart.
If Val has been promised all the resources he needs in the summer to sign two new midfielders and two new wing backs then it's worth writing this season off as with the right players, this way of playing has been proven to be entertaining and successful. If not, we should either sack him as it's obvious he wont change, or he needs to try something else. The lack of an obvious '10' in our squad makes me think that anyone expecting us to try playing through teams a bit more is going to be disappointed.
Fantastic post Ted, lad!
RE: "Creative" centre midfielders... - Gzbaggy - 01-28-2022
creative midfielders pass the ball create chances and score a few goals, neither Reach nor Livermore do that
would anybody drop Grant into midfield because he can pass the ball and score goals?
RE: "Creative" centre midfielders... - WorcsWBA - 01-28-2022
(01-28-2022, 11:28 AM)Ted Maul Wrote: System has to suit the players and vice versa. Val's biggest issue is that he's tried to shoehorn the players we've got into a system that doesn't suit them. But what system does?
Very good point. People seem to have forgotten that many of the same players saw us hopelessly relegated last season playing in 2 disparate styles then. When Allardyce arrived, our initial results were:
L 0-3
D 1-1
L 0-5
L 0-4
W 3-2
L 1-2
D 2-2
L 1-2
L 0-2
D 1-1
D 0-0
W 1-0
L 0-1
D 0-0
L 0-1
P15 W2 D5 L8 F10 A26 Pts11
I don't recall there being any rumours of players being unhappy with the style of play then, despite the results generally being so pathetic.
It seems like no-one can get a tune out of them, but having to put more effort/practice into Val's system has made some of them throw their toys put of the pram. They're excessively highly paid to learn and apply what the manager says. If they don't like it, they should ask for a transfer. They won't have the courage of their convictions though, of course, because they wouldn't get a signing on free (should anyone actually want to sign them).
Less whining and more application please.
RE: "Creative" centre midfielders... - Mickyfudge - 01-28-2022
Mozza was the ideal midfield player got a bit of everything,worked hard and could put himself about,creative and scored some cracking goals
RE: "Creative" centre midfielders... - wbamitch - 01-28-2022
None of our midfielders have a goal in them apart from Mowatt, and his have dried up now. We don't have a pairing that complement each other, they're all very similar. Livermore hasn't had the legs to play in a 2 for years now, yet we're still here watching him try to every match. He could be a great sitting midfielder in a 3 or one of the wide centre halves but we never try it. At the end of the day it doesn't matter who we have playing there currently, if the instruction is to volley it into the channels then that's what they're going to do.
RE: "Creative" centre midfielders... - MassDebater - 01-28-2022
(01-28-2022, 01:59 PM)wbamitch Wrote: None of our midfielders have a goal in them apart from Mowatt, and his have dried up now. We don't have a pairing that complement each other, they're all very similar. Livermore hasn't had the legs to play in a 2 for years now, yet we're still here watching him try to every match. He could be a great sitting midfielder in a 3 or one of the wide centre halves but we never try it. At the end of the day it doesn't matter who we have playing there currently, if the instruction is to volley it into the channels then that's what they're going to do.
Says it all that I think Jake's best game this season was when he played in defence.
RE: "Creative" centre midfielders... - Peachy - 01-28-2022
I've said it countless times but Mowatt and Jake are just far too similer to play as a pair. We need another central midfielder who can break forward and carry the ball and pick a pass. He doesn't need to be overly skillful but he needs to have drive, composure and vision. It'll make a huge difference.
AMN and Yokuslu were both ideal.