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+--- Thread: UK Covid death toll (/showthread.php?tid=10162)
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RE: UK Covid death toll - Protheroe - 12-08-2020
(12-07-2020, 01:44 PM)baggy1 Wrote: No he doesn't, that is just a lie. What I don't understand is why you would make a statement that you know is false.
After 9 months of this virus you are still not getting it, this is about reducing the spread until we get a vaccine.
I am getting it. I simply don't want to burn the whole economy on a pyre of sanctimony.
I'm doing my bit staying away from Merry Hill, wearing a mask when I buy the paper, studiously ignoring my neighbours and watching my business's revenue drop by 40% with no government support. On the bright side neither of my modern classic Italians have ever been in better shape.
RE: UK Covid death toll - baggy1 - 12-08-2020
(12-08-2020, 09:00 AM)Protheroe Wrote:(12-07-2020, 01:44 PM)baggy1 Wrote: No he doesn't, that is just a lie. What I don't understand is why you would make a statement that you know is false.
After 9 months of this virus you are still not getting it, this is about reducing the spread until we get a vaccine.
I am getting it. I simply don't want to burn the whole economy on a pyre of sanctimony.
I'm doing my bit staying away from Merry Hill, wearing a mask when I buy the paper, studiously ignoring my neighbours and watching my business's revenue drop by 40% with no government support. On the bright side neither of my modern classic Italians have ever been in better shape.
The government have provided support based on self employed profits, once we are out of this will your revenues get back to where they were? If so then I'm not certain what is the ultimate problem here. Should the government have done more around business rates etc - yes I believe they should have done. But ultimately we have done this to save lives - your 'pyre of sanctimony' line make you look a right dick based on that (No offence intended). You'll survive a downturn in revenue and profits, some won't survive this at all.
That's not being sanctimonious, it's just being realistic.
And on that note week 48 figures (to 27th November) are out and unfortunately again there are another 2k deaths more than the 5YA and 1.5k more than 2019. I had a look back at the last bad flu year and at this point the deaths were around the 5YA figure so this is an exceptional year whichever way you look at it. Also it needs to be remembered that these deaths were at a point when we were in lockdown and suppressing the spread.
Overall for the year now we have 64,737 more deaths than the 5YA and 69,148 more than 2019 - All of the figures are just for England and Wales.
Let's hope that the vaccine that is being administered from today works and we are heading towards getting back to normal.
One concern that I have is the numbers in hospital which peaked at 13,767 on the 23rd but has only dropped to 12,241 as of yesterday. If the virus starts to spread again and hospitalisations pick up then it won't take very long before we are up to the peak of April/May which was 17,172. And as much as this is becoming used as a political football I'm hoping the lockdown wasn't too late again.
RE: UK Covid death toll - Protheroe - 12-08-2020
(12-08-2020, 10:06 AM)baggy1 Wrote: The government have provided support based on self employed profits, once we are out of this will your revenues get back to where they were? If so then I'm not certain what is the ultimate problem here. Should the government have done more around business rates etc - yes I believe they should have done. But ultimately we have done this to save lives - your 'pyre of sanctimony' line make you look a right dick based on that (No offence intended). You'll survive a downturn in revenue and profits, some won't survive this at all.
That's not being sanctimonious, it's just being realistic.
Fuck me. It's not like I have bills to pay like all those paid to do nothing on furlough, or paid trhough SEISS AND able to earn too, is it?
The government hasn't taken any action to "Save Lives", they've said it often enough FFS - it's to "Protect the NHS". They cost lives by chucking the infected elderly out into care homes.
It's the height of sanctimony. You've encapsulated the whole problem right there.
RE: UK Covid death toll - baggy1 - 12-08-2020
You're getting very confused here, the government have managed to fuck this up completely in many ways (i'm not defending them at all) but if you wanted them to complete the job then do away with lockdowns entirely. You seem to have this approach that the citizens will do their duty and abide sensibly by the rules - I've seen with my own eyes what happens when you allow them free will, they gather together in pubs with a 'fuck you' attitude, I'm alright jack.
And throughout this you don't appear to have a solution - do you genuinely think that letting everyone do what they feel is right will reduce the spread of this virus. We are seeing excess deaths of 2k a week with restrictions in place, and I agree about the chucking old folk into care homes with the virus makes the overall figures a lot worse (estimates are around 20k) but that doesn't take away from the current problem we are facing until this vaccine is fully rolled out.
RE: UK Covid death toll - Protheroe - 12-08-2020
(12-08-2020, 10:36 AM)baggy1 Wrote: You're getting very confused here, the government have managed to fuck this up completely in many ways (i'm not defending them at all) but if you wanted them to complete the job then do away with lockdowns entirely. You seem to have this approach that the citizens will do their duty and abide sensibly by the rules - I've seen with my own eyes what happens when you allow them free will, they gather together in pubs with a 'fuck you' attitude, I'm alright jack.
And throughout this you don't appear to have a solution - do you genuinely think that letting everyone do what they feel is right will reduce the spread of this virus. We are seeing excess deaths of 2k a week with restrictions in place, and I agree about the chucking old folk into care homes with the virus makes the overall figures a lot worse (estimates are around 20k) but that doesn't take away from the current problem we are facing until this vaccine is fully rolled out.
No, but we need a national effort to shield the minority from the virus (if that's what they want) whilst the majority get on with life.
The government response to the 2008 financial crisis saw a huge transfer of wealth from the youngest to the oldest. We're witnessing it all over again. The tyranny of the Boomer is leading the response to this crisis just as they did the last - yet they all lived happily through a Hong Kong flu season in 1968 that killed as great a proportion of the population without a single shutdown.
We can't abolish death, and is the value of 85 year olds with several underlying health condtions really worth chucking a million under 25s on the dole for? I think not. Call me a callous bastard if you like, but I was on the side of the young, poor and dispossesed too in 2008. At least I'm consistent.
RE: UK Covid death toll - baggy1 - 12-08-2020
How small is this minority? And how exactly can you 'shield' 12M people?
Let's look at this logically - 12M people to start with in the over 65 category, then you've got to think about those that care for them in homes - they have to split away from the rest of their non-shielding family. Then you need to split the NHS into covid and non-covid hospitals or areas of hospitals. You might then have the family members that act as carers for their elderly family. I reckon you are looking at 30% of the population there.
Now if you take the under 18s as about 30% of the population as well, plus those that have been protected by furlough and SEISS then the people impacted are actually the minority clearly.
What would you do?
RE: UK Covid death toll - baggiebuckster - 12-08-2020
(12-08-2020, 10:06 AM)baggy1 Wrote: The government have provided support based on self employed profits, once we are out of this will your revenues get back to where they were? If so then I'm not certain what is the ultimate problem here. Should the government have done more around business rates etc - yes I believe they should have done. But ultimately we have done this to save lives - your 'pyre of sanctimony' line make you look a right dick based on that (No offence intended). You'll survive a downturn in revenue and profits, some won't survive this at all.
That's not being sanctimonious, it's just being realistic.
Which has amounted to a big fat zero for me throughout the whole pandemic. Wrong place wrong time after 33 years unbroken service from the age of 16.
RE: UK Covid death toll - Ted Maul - 12-08-2020
We're now in month ten of the same posts, albeit worded slightly differently being slung back and forth between the same posters.
Are you lot not bored yet?
RE: UK Covid death toll - Protheroe - 12-08-2020
(12-08-2020, 12:04 PM)Ted Maul Wrote: We're now in month ten of the same posts, albeit worded slightly differently being slung back and forth between the same posters.
Are you lot not bored yet?
I'm apoplectic that we've just emerged from a lockdown based on false data. Aren't you?
Exhibit 1: Original ONS data that provided case for lockdown:
![[Image: EotNIJaXIAMTBAD?format=jpg&name=360x360]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EotNIJaXIAMTBAD?format=jpg&name=360x360)
Exhibit 2: Revised ONS data showing nothing of the sort
![[Image: EotNKYYXYAEyEZm?format=jpg&name=360x360]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EotNKYYXYAEyEZm?format=jpg&name=360x360)
This shit matters.
RE: UK Covid death toll - baggy1 - 12-08-2020
And what do those ONS screenshots come from? Just a bit of context please for your conspiracy theories.
Ignoring the fact that we have 2000 people a week dying early and hospitalisations rising on a weekly basis your best defence is a couple of screenshots of an excel sheet without any context.