(01-11-2026, 08:13 AM)Pontificator Wrote: In the Sunday Times today - sums it up.
https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/west-midlands-police-maccabi-fans-tv-tragicomedy-n7kwkwz8h
For Guardian readers https://archive.ph/5HTji

(01-11-2026, 11:59 AM)Squid Wrote: To the average person, it seems like they wanted something very bad to happen, whereas the WMP have worked to keep everyone safe.

(01-11-2026, 11:59 AM)Squid Wrote:

(01-11-2026, 08:13 AM)Pontificator Wrote: In the Sunday Times today - sums it up.
https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/west-midlands-police-maccabi-fans-tv-tragicomedy-n7kwkwz8h
For Guardian readers https://archive.ph/5HTji

Summary for those who can't be bothered to click:

Muslims are the baddies

Rather than being an embarrassing exercise in vested interests (as nearly every MP was some type of "Friend of Israel"), the committee hearing was some heroic exercise in fact-finding

Maccabi Tel Aviv fan's long history of violence and hooliganism - not mentioned

That the UK far right were going to target the match - not mentioned

The right of the people of Birmingham to not be subjected to violent disorder - not mentioned

If holding a football match is worth mass violence and disruption occurring - not mentioned

Israelis being conflated with the UK Jewish population - done throughout

Here is how the opinion writer of the article describes the head of WMP, who is in the firing line for making such a pragmatic decision is described:

"Guildford huffed and sighed. To capture his quivering arrogance and tone-deaf stupidity, I reckon the film-makers will have to cast a giant, gelatinous boiled egg."

I really don't think the media are doing themselves any favours here. To the average person, it seems like they wanted something very bad to happen, whereas the WMP have worked to keep everyone safe.

(01-11-2026, 04:37 PM)Hudds2 Wrote: I actually read the article a few hours ago as I subscribe to TOL (though it gets more like the Mail every day).  The whole episode is troubling for all sorts of reasons.  Also subscribe to the Guardian that Hadley Freeman used to write for.

(01-11-2026, 04:37 PM)Hudds2 Wrote:

(01-11-2026, 11:59 AM)Squid Wrote:

(01-11-2026, 08:13 AM)Pontificator Wrote: In the Sunday Times today - sums it up.
https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/west-midlands-police-maccabi-fans-tv-tragicomedy-n7kwkwz8h
For Guardian readers https://archive.ph/5HTji

Summary for those who can't be bothered to click:

Muslims are the baddies

Rather than being an embarrassing exercise in vested interests (as nearly every MP was some type of "Friend of Israel"), the committee hearing was some heroic exercise in fact-finding

Maccabi Tel Aviv fan's long history of violence and hooliganism - not mentioned

That the UK far right were going to target the match - not mentioned

The right of the people of Birmingham to not be subjected to violent disorder - not mentioned

If holding a football match is worth mass violence and disruption occurring - not mentioned

Israelis being conflated with the UK Jewish population - done throughout

Here is how the opinion writer of the article describes the head of WMP, who is in the firing line for making such a pragmatic decision is described:

"Guildford huffed and sighed. To capture his quivering arrogance and tone-deaf stupidity, I reckon the film-makers will have to cast a giant, gelatinous boiled egg."

I really don't think the media are doing themselves any favours here. To the average person, it seems like they wanted something very bad to happen, whereas the WMP have worked to keep everyone safe.

She says the vast majority of muslims are lovely and peaceful.

I actually read the article a few hours ago as I subscribe to TOL (though it gets more like the Mail every day).  The whole episode is troubling for all sorts of reasons.  Also subscribe to the Guardian that Hadley Freeman used to write for.

(01-11-2026, 09:24 PM)Squid Wrote:

(01-11-2026, 04:37 PM)Hudds2 Wrote:

(01-11-2026, 11:59 AM)Squid Wrote:

(01-11-2026, 08:13 AM)Pontificator Wrote: In the Sunday Times today - sums it up.
https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/west-midlands-police-maccabi-fans-tv-tragicomedy-n7kwkwz8h
For Guardian readers https://archive.ph/5HTji

Summary for those who can't be bothered to click:

Muslims are the baddies

Rather than being an embarrassing exercise in vested interests (as nearly every MP was some type of "Friend of Israel"), the committee hearing was some heroic exercise in fact-finding

Maccabi Tel Aviv fan's long history of violence and hooliganism - not mentioned

That the UK far right were going to target the match - not mentioned

The right of the people of Birmingham to not be subjected to violent disorder - not mentioned

If holding a football match is worth mass violence and disruption occurring - not mentioned

Israelis being conflated with the UK Jewish population - done throughout

Here is how the opinion writer of the article describes the head of WMP, who is in the firing line for making such a pragmatic decision is described:

"Guildford huffed and sighed. To capture his quivering arrogance and tone-deaf stupidity, I reckon the film-makers will have to cast a giant, gelatinous boiled egg."

I really don't think the media are doing themselves any favours here. To the average person, it seems like they wanted something very bad to happen, whereas the WMP have worked to keep everyone safe.

She says the vast majority of muslims are lovely and peaceful.

I actually read the article a few hours ago as I subscribe to TOL (though it gets more like the Mail every day).  The whole episode is troubling for all sorts of reasons.  Also subscribe to the Guardian that Hadley Freeman used to write for.

This is what she said:

"Muslims outnumber Jews in this country by more than ten to one, and while the vast majority are lovely and peaceful, domestic Islamist terrorism is real, and Jewish terrorism is not."

Several issues here.

1) Why is she talking about terrorism? Violence and hooliganism at football matches, planned or otherwise, is not terrorism.

2) Why is she conflating fans of a foreign football team with the UK Jewish population? The Maccabi Tel Aviv fans have a horrendous reputation and were last seen chanting "Death to Arabs" in Stuttgart, while also having a recent derby match with another Israeli team cancelled due to violence. For Hadley Freeman to make no mention of this whatsoever, is extremely disingenuous.

3) Like most of the people who are apparently so outraged by this, I notice there are no alternative solutions. The city of Birmingham should have just tolerated riots and tolerated their residents being blamed for the riots. Anyone visibly Muslim or who be mistaken as Muslim, such as Sikhs (and Aston is an area with a high population of both), should have tolerated being abused not just by the Maccabi Tel Aviv fans, but also by the far right who would have congregated upon the match.

(01-12-2026, 08:32 AM)Pontificator Wrote: I really don’t know why I can be arsed to argue this, anyway

“Muslims outnumber Jews in this country by more than ten to one, and while the vast majority are peaceful and law-abiding, domestic Islamist terrorism is real, and Jewish terrorism is not.”

This is simply a fact. She’s a Jewish columnist, maybe she points it out because, like many UK Jews, she’s scared. Look at the CST. Look at the permanent security outside synagogues and Jewish schools.

1. The threats from some Muslims were real, terrorism by any reasonable measure. Look up the Terrorism Act 2000. If they weren’t, we wouldn’t even be talking about this shit-show in these terms. Yet Jews got the blame and the consequences. Par for the course. The “river to the sea” mob sat back smiling. Iran one, Israel nil. Guildford got it wrong, didn’t act on principle, and then dissembled - lied, in the committee.

2. Are you serious? The conflation was started by Islamist community leaders, councillors, MPs, and imams. In the end they risk members of their own community as brainless, factional, divisive rhetoric takes hold, aided and abetted by people with your views. Tommy Robinson and his lot absolutely got off on this.

3. The alternative is principles and not dumping them in the “too difficult” box. Birmingham should have tolerated riots no more than anywhere else and put them down with the full force of the law, because that’s what we do. It is perfectly possible to organise fans so they don’t come into contact with opposition fans or local communities, this happens every week. Of course the MTA Club has to take responsibility for its supporters’ behaviour, under threat of sanction or a ban.

(01-12-2026, 10:13 AM)Protheroe Wrote:

(01-12-2026, 08:32 AM)Pontificator Wrote: I really don’t know why I can be arsed to argue this, anyway

“Muslims outnumber Jews in this country by more than ten to one, and while the vast majority are peaceful and law-abiding, domestic Islamist terrorism is real, and Jewish terrorism is not.”

This is simply a fact. She’s a Jewish columnist, maybe she points it out because, like many UK Jews, she’s scared. Look at the CST. Look at the permanent security outside synagogues and Jewish schools.

1. The threats from some Muslims were real, terrorism by any reasonable measure. Look up the Terrorism Act 2000. If they weren’t, we wouldn’t even be talking about this shit-show in these terms. Yet Jews got the blame and the consequences. Par for the course. The “river to the sea” mob sat back smiling. Iran one, Israel nil. Guildford got it wrong, didn’t act on principle, and then dissembled - lied, in the committee.

2. Are you serious? The conflation was started by Islamist community leaders, councillors, MPs, and imams. In the end they risk members of their own community as brainless, factional, divisive rhetoric takes hold, aided and abetted by people with your views. Tommy Robinson and his lot absolutely got off on this.

3. The alternative is principles and not dumping them in the “too difficult” box. Birmingham should have tolerated riots no more than anywhere else and put them down with the full force of the law, because that’s what we do. It is perfectly possible to organise fans so they don’t come into contact with opposition fans or local communities, this happens every week. Of course the MTA Club has to take responsibility for its supporters’ behaviour, under threat of sanction or a ban.

The most important aspect of this is that WMP created "evidence" to support its narrative, and then tried to cover that fact up. 

WMP has history of this with the Birmingham Six and the Serious Crime Squad. 

This is the same police service that stated categorically that it "was not in the best interests of the child" to remove them from the care of a parent who had inflicted or facilitated FGM.

Bearing in mind we actually smashed up the North Stand upper, no one ever called for us to be banned did they?

(01-12-2026, 11:31 AM)Pontificator Wrote: How many fixtures do you go to where there is nowhere to go when you get off the coach but the ground. When we have a difficult fixture the coaches are parked down Middlemore road and the police are all over - down the road, up the ramp and into the Smethwick. It's done all over the UK when neccessary and they know exactlty how to police games. It would have been easy - but they're Jews. And you are of course dead right.