(11-09-2020, 07:37 PM)billybassett Wrote: Happy with my conscience and will keep striving to help people understand actually what's going on. I will keep doing it for my kids and my kids kids. What's a foot is corruption and fraud on a massive scale.

Lockdowns don't work otherwise why 2 and why a spring one mentioned.

How come masks aren't working either.

Like I've said Im not trying to convert people.just provide a.non Ofcom msm handcuffed set of information.

As for you Dekka I can put up with you being stupid but I don't have to.put up with your pathetic digs so fuck off

(11-09-2020, 07:37 PM)billybassett Wrote:

(11-09-2020, 07:04 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Is this just a bad flu? If the answer received is yes walk away from the person saying it. Preferably as quickly as possibly as they’re probably refusing to wear a mask and have protest to go to.

Happy with my conscience and will keep striving to help people understand actually what's going on. I will keep doing it for my kids and my kids kids. What's a foot is corruption and fraud on a massive scale.

Lockdowns don't work otherwise why 2 and why a spring one mentioned.

How come masks aren't working either.

Like I've said Im not trying to convert people.just provide a.non Ofcom msm handcuffed set of information.

As for you Dekka I can put up with you being stupid but I don't have to.put up with your pathetic digs so fuck off

---

(11-09-2020, 05:10 PM)baggy1 Wrote:

(11-09-2020, 04:32 PM)billybassett Wrote: "Ok I'll bite, why?" - baggy1

For me it's the thought process I find chilling:

You see covid cases falling
You see other respiratory illness cases non existent
You are experts in immunology 101 so you know about TCells, immunity etc

Yet you then decide to send the army into this place to find the virus - for what purpose?

Scale - we have a load of military personnel that can help out by carrying out the testing. It frees up the local teams and NHS to get on with what they do best, whilst the relatively low skill testing is carried out in volume to speed up the process. No conspiracy.

---

(11-09-2020, 04:42 PM)billybassett Wrote:

(11-09-2020, 04:35 PM)baggiebuckster Wrote: What is the purpose of doing this mass testing?

The people being tested are standing in queues which contain both those with symptoms and those without so surely this runs the risk of people who are fine getting infected going for a test. They won't test positive that day but how many days does that 'negative test' hold good for?

Look at the Albion for example - Pereira and Ivanovic played football last Monday evening yet tested positive for Covid on Tuesday. So did they just get up on Tuesday with Covid? How many days before a match are the players tested? Surely there is every chance that they had it whilst playing against Fulham.

To me it seems like a massive waste of money for something that only gives an indication at a set point in time. Especially when the tests used are 96% accurate. So when Boris gets up to his 10 million people a day being tested that will equate to just the 400k being falsely told to isolate. They of course will be isolating for 14 days so on a rolling scale we will see in the region of 5 million people isolating at any given time.

It's worse than that. 32,970,188 tests have already been done. Must be a whacking great percentage of the population tested at some point - probably 30-40%.

It's not solved a thing has it. Why? The test is at maximum 30% accurate and I'm being very very generous. But when you've ordered 30m tests at a cost of £400m then you must use them mustn't you? Got to keep the contracts and revenue streams flowing.

If it was smallpox then yes testing/isolating etc But it's a bad flu.

I read an interesting scientific piece about the tradewinds circulating respiratory viruses and how they chase around the world in a certain pattern. The point being you can't control it with lockdowns, masks, social distancing or hand washing. All you do is delay the inevitable until the community reaches the necessary immunity level.

Those are tests completed not people, some people will be tested multiple times (medical staff, those in hospital etc.) - in a population of 65M, there have been 32M tests and possibly less than 16M of those different people, we simply don't know because the politicians refuse to answer the question. It could be as low as 10% and as high as 50%, i'd be erring on the side of about 20%.

And it's not a bad flu FFS, when have we ever had an excess death total of 66k in this country? And what was the highest excess death total caused by flu?

It's your perogative to believe that all excess deaths marked as Covid are actually death by covid.

I don't believe theres any  evidence to suggest that and would say that if "of covid" is 25% of that it's a big estimate

(11-09-2020, 07:52 PM)Ted Maul Wrote:

(11-09-2020, 07:37 PM)billybassett Wrote: Happy with my conscience and will keep striving to help people understand actually what's going on. I will keep doing it for my kids and my kids kids. What's a foot is corruption and fraud on a massive scale.

Lockdowns don't work otherwise why 2 and why a spring one mentioned.

How come masks aren't working either.

Like I've said Im not trying to convert people.just provide a.non Ofcom msm handcuffed set of information.

As for you Dekka I can put up with you being stupid but I don't have to.put up with your pathetic digs so fuck off

Why are you so against wearing a mask? They obviously have some benefits, you've alluded in an earlier post to the fact we've barely seen the flu this year and speaking for myself, I've made it to November without so much as a cold. I'd happily keep some of the regulations we've seen brought in over the past few months, people are generally taking more care and consideration r.e. hygiene in public and I wouldn't mind at all if they wanted us to keep masks on in shops. At the very least, if it makes other, more vulnerable people feel a bit safer then surely it's the right and responsible thing to do. It's a very small gesture.

Lockdowns as a tool to slow the spread and give the NHS greater capacity DO WORK. Lockdown 1.0 worked, it slowed and eventually decreased the rise in cases and the only reason we're in a second one is because our Government used the time to spend £12bn on a badly put together spreadsheet rather than an effective track and trace system.

If we are released from the current lockdown into the tier system (do you agree with this?) and a vaccine is gradually made available in the lead up to Christmas, then we may avoid a further shut down during the winter. If (and it's very possible), Johnson and his pals turn the vaccination programme into another of their infamous shitshows then we're likely to have to face up to Lockdown 3.0. Until we've got as close to zero Covid as possible, the economy is never going to function as it did.

(11-10-2020, 07:38 AM)billybassett Wrote:

(11-09-2020, 07:52 PM)Ted Maul Wrote:

(11-09-2020, 07:37 PM)billybassett Wrote: Happy with my conscience and will keep striving to help people understand actually what's going on. I will keep doing it for my kids and my kids kids. What's a foot is corruption and fraud on a massive scale.

Lockdowns don't work otherwise why 2 and why a spring one mentioned.

How come masks aren't working either.

Like I've said Im not trying to convert people.just provide a.non Ofcom msm handcuffed set of information.

As for you Dekka I can put up with you being stupid but I don't have to.put up with your pathetic digs so fuck off

Why are you so against wearing a mask? They obviously have some benefits, you've alluded in an earlier post to the fact we've barely seen the flu this year and speaking for myself, I've made it to November without so much as a cold. I'd happily keep some of the regulations we've seen brought in over the past few months, people are generally taking more care and consideration r.e. hygiene in public and I wouldn't mind at all if they wanted us to keep masks on in shops. At the very least, if it makes other, more vulnerable people feel a bit safer then surely it's the right and responsible thing to do. It's a very small gesture.

Lockdowns as a tool to slow the spread and give the NHS greater capacity DO WORK. Lockdown 1.0 worked, it slowed and eventually decreased the rise in cases and the only reason we're in a second one is because our Government used the time to spend £12bn on a badly put together spreadsheet rather than an effective track and trace system.

If we are released from the current lockdown into the tier system (do you agree with this?) and a vaccine is gradually made available in the lead up to Christmas, then we may avoid a further shut down during the winter. If (and it's very possible), Johnson and his pals turn the vaccination programme into another of their infamous shitshows then we're likely to have to face up to Lockdown 3.0. Until we've got as close to zero Covid as possible, the economy is never going to function as it did.

With regards to the bold bit. Sincerely hoping you're not vulnerable, ill or have close family members who are. Nobody wants people who are ill and vulnerable to die or to be put under any more risk than necessary. If you do then I can guess that may be a valid place you'd like to see us in - for all the obvious reasons.

If you're not then I'm unsure as to the motive. I can't imagine a society I'd want myself or my kids to live in where we were in such a constant state of fear or anxiety to give up all the pleasures of living in a social society such that we have to wear masks or keep our distance because of a "bad flu" (yes I'll keep saying it). In no other year in the last 50, when there have been equally bad influenza and respiratory outbreaks, have we done so and we've managed to live with things proportionately.

As for the proposition that it's safer and a more responsible thing to do for ALL of us is in my mind preposterous. Subjecting 99.9% of a healthy population to measures that reduce their liberty, freedom, socialisation, fun, joy is not for me. It would be completely out of proportion to any risk and the slippery slope to further draconian measures some of which have already been mentioned like: having to have a test to get a job, having to have had a vaccine to travel, being controlled and scared by an authoritarian government. Don't get me wrong if it was ebola or an actual lethal virus then the measures would be in proportion to the current lethality of that virus. But a respiratory cov variant virus. No.

As for masks. Nowhere in the last 8 months where masks were enforced with the full power of the law since day 1 have they made any difference. BMJ studies, over a number of years, of mask use in highly risk clinical settings have results that are not conclusive one way or the other.

As for your question about the tiering. Then if any lockdown was really necessary to actually protect the health service then a proportionate local way to go would be more effective. But firstly you have to believe that there was an issue, secondly that the issue was caused by admissions and not staff being off work because they had a false positive test (37% of staff in Yorkshire), and thirdly that the cost of doing that was less than the cost of locking that area down (total cost and benefits of all health, business, economy etc). On all counts in my mind the threshold was not reached.

Like I say when you've got millions upon millions of our money staked into testing, tracing, ppe and vaccination contracts stopping that tanker without signing your own political career death warrant (undersigned by tory donors) is basically impossible so you're left with pursuing the approach we have.

---

Dekka wrote:

"Simply an honest position. You continually say it’s just a bad flu and yet people far better qualified than you disagree. Comparison

I gave up talking to you civilly about this subject when you dismissed my polite and well reasoned position of standing up for the rights of the most vulnerable during the pandemic with a single word.., ‘yawn’. The most honest and telling thing you have said on this subject."

I had to stop reading the comparison when I saw the phrase "Many more people are susceptible to COVID-19 because there is little preexisting immunity to the virus that causes it—SARS-CoV-2". 100% incorrect based on current knowledge of the genome, 30,000 pairs sequenced at the start of the year, and its comparison to 4 existing flu variants. But then I saw the foundation is sponsored to the tune of £3bn by Bloomberg and then the dots started to form.

I can keep saying it because I believe it to be true. You believe it's much much worse than influenza because you believe all the deaths registered as Covid deaths were deaths from Covid. If you believe that then there's really no helping you.

If you really believe I said "Yawn" to that then you're a bigger self righteous cock than I already thought.

(11-10-2020, 01:02 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:

(11-09-2020, 07:37 PM)billybassett Wrote:

---

It's your perogative to believe that all excess deaths marked as Covid are actually death by covid.

I don't believe theres any  evidence to suggest that and would say that if "of covid" is 25% of that it's a big estimate

Simply an honest position. You continually say it’s just a bad flu and yet people far better qualified than you disagree. Comparison

I gave up talking to you civilly about this subject when you dismissed my polite and well reasoned position of standing up for the rights of the most vulnerable during the pandemic with a single word.., ‘yawn’. The most honest and telling thing you have said on this subject.

(11-10-2020, 09:14 AM)baggiebuckster Wrote: Not sure of the ages of people on here to determine when you will become eligible for the vaccine but out of interest who will be happy to jump straight in and take the jab assuming it is available early next year?