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+--- Thread: UK Covid death toll (/showthread.php?tid=10162)
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RE: UK Covid death toll - baggy1 - 09-10-2020
As at the end of June Germany had a working testing programme and their excess deaths for the year to that date was 7,300.
Just to add to that France had an excess death total of 25,285; Italy had 44,866, Spain had 48,399 and Sweden had 5,080 and the UK had 64,451. Putting that into % of deaths over the norm gives the following figures: UK was at 52% above, Spain 56%, Italy 35%, Sweden 28%, France 20% and Germany 4%.
Obvs these are a bit out of date now but they do indicate which countries have done better.
RE: UK Covid death toll - Brentbaggie - 09-10-2020
Yes but ours is world beating.
RE: UK Covid death toll - Protheroe - 09-10-2020
(09-10-2020, 01:32 PM)Brentbaggie Wrote:(09-10-2020, 11:44 AM)Protheroe Wrote: Show me the evidence Brentbaggie.The problem is, no one can.
I'm not sure which evidence you're talking about. The evidence re. excess deaths - which would appear empirical, given that other countries have registered excess deaths over and above the norm and there is a virus - or the evidence re. long-term effects? Medical professionals and scientists have made several interventions and recommendations regarding the existence of lung lesions, brain impairment etc. in the short term which appear to be lasting longer than they should.
The idea that "no one can" simply returns me to my observation regarding your beliefs. You don't want to believe such evidence exists and therefore it does not. Anything impinging upon your desires is automatically at odds with the reality you have created for yourself. Are we in the midst of a health crisis - not as far as you're concerned. Did thousands of people die in April, March and May and so many were il with the virus that the hospitals were at breaking point and some closed their emergency admissions depts.? Apparently not as far as you're concerned. Could it happen again unless certain precautions are taken? No, it won't, that's what you want to believe because the thought that the world has changed so that you can no longer exercise your right to do as you want is anathema to you.
No one can show you the evidence? You are merely being facetious. If not then this is a pointless argument.
The evidence I'm after is how much worse these after effects are, how widepsread they are and how they stack up measured against all the other deaths that will occur because the NHS hasn't been dealing with anything else.
I'd also take issue that hospitals were at "breaking point" - there's no evidence to suggest that either.
RE: UK Covid death toll - Baggybenny - 09-10-2020
(09-10-2020, 09:41 AM)strawman Wrote:But he is the smart one who buys the last round when 2 are on halves and another 2 have gone home.(09-10-2020, 08:59 AM)baggy1 Wrote:(09-10-2020, 08:39 AM)Protheroe Wrote: I'm amazed the way this country is sleepwalking into conformity with no evidential base whatsoever.
The cynic in me believes that the government is testing just how compliant we'll be. Then they'll decide what they might be able to get away with long term in the name of 'protecting the NHS', 'saving lives' or the 'climate emergency' or whatever other spurious justification they need to clmap down on our liberty and extort our wealth.
Luckily we have people like you who understand the medical professionals are lying and in cahoots with the government to make us all subservient. This is a real virus, it has really killed people, if we don't treat it cautiously then it will kill more people. There isn't a vaccine, there isn't a real way of measuring how many people have got it, and we don't know how it will react as we go into winter.
There are over 60k excess deaths this year in the UK, we are approaching 1M deaths worldwide (if we haven't passed that already), but all of those people have sacrificed themselves in order to go along with the governments, Bill Gates and various lizards to get us under the boot.
But fuck it, you need a pint.
He can still have a pint, in fact he can have 6 if everybody buys a round
The proceeds from the bottom line profit goes into his gold fund
RE: UK Covid death toll - Derek Hardballs - 09-10-2020
(09-10-2020, 06:53 PM)Protheroe Wrote:(09-10-2020, 01:32 PM)Brentbaggie Wrote:(09-10-2020, 11:44 AM)Protheroe Wrote: Show me the evidence Brentbaggie.The problem is, no one can.
I'm not sure which evidence you're talking about. The evidence re. excess deaths - which would appear empirical, given that other countries have registered excess deaths over and above the norm and there is a virus - or the evidence re. long-term effects? Medical professionals and scientists have made several interventions and recommendations regarding the existence of lung lesions, brain impairment etc. in the short term which appear to be lasting longer than they should.
The idea that "no one can" simply returns me to my observation regarding your beliefs. You don't want to believe such evidence exists and therefore it does not. Anything impinging upon your desires is automatically at odds with the reality you have created for yourself. Are we in the midst of a health crisis - not as far as you're concerned. Did thousands of people die in April, March and May and so many were il with the virus that the hospitals were at breaking point and some closed their emergency admissions depts.? Apparently not as far as you're concerned. Could it happen again unless certain precautions are taken? No, it won't, that's what you want to believe because the thought that the world has changed so that you can no longer exercise your right to do as you want is anathema to you.
No one can show you the evidence? You are merely being facetious. If not then this is a pointless argument.
The evidence I'm after is how much worse these after effects are, how widepsread they are and how they stack up measured against all the other deaths that will occur because the NHS hasn't been dealing with anything else.
I'd also take issue that hospitals were at "breaking point" - there's no evidence to suggest that either.
Anti-mask
Down plays the risk of Covid 19 at every opportunity
Climate Change sceptic
Right wing libertarian
Dislikes the BBC
Staunch Brexiteer who is taking whataboutery to the next level currently to defend the indefensible
Ticking all the boxes Proth
RE: UK Covid death toll - Protheroe - 09-11-2020
Nuance is clearly beyond you Derek.
Masks, clearly, don't seem to have helped - as rising cases and reduced social distancing suggest. There never was much evidence for mask wearing.
There is very little risk of Covid 19 for the vast majority of the population. Selective lockdown is much more preferable in my opinion.
Climate change is occurring. The state response will make little difference set against the ludicrous costs we could incur. The fight against climate change and environmental degradation won't be helped by impoverishing ourselves.
Does anyone like the BBC?
Not sure what I'm defending, and pointing to the hypocrisy of the EU's protectionist racket is hardly whataboutery.
RE: UK Covid death toll - JOK - 09-11-2020
There are numerous scientific and health authority reports which give the definitive answer that wearing masks DOES help in restricting the spread of viruses. The reason incidences of COVID being on the increase is because tens of thousands of selfish tits refuse to wear masks and maintain social distancing.
So, there is little risk to “the vast majority “. That’s ok then. Let’s abandon those ‘few’ who are at risk. The elderly, the sick and the vulnerable. If they die, so what, eh. Let them stay locked away indefinitely so you can go about in your selfish little way and earn pots of dosh to enable you to buy more gold and gilt edged. Bonds.
Deterring people from having two Chelsea Tractors on the drive or penalising them for flying off round the world two or three time a year is not going to impoverish the majority of us. We could start with that.
‘It’s a bit strange Dekka included the BBC as he seems to dislike them too. What, with their ‘client’ none government scrutinising journalist.
You are not doing your EU argument any favours by referring to EU hypocrisy but not citing any examples.
RE: UK Covid death toll - Protheroe - 09-11-2020
(09-11-2020, 07:52 AM)JOK Wrote: You are not doing your EU argument any favours by referring to EU hypocrisy but not citing any examples.
I'm keen to understand whether any of you are actually aware of the way the EU has undermined the foundations of its biggest project. It seems not.
RE: UK Covid death toll - baggy1 - 09-11-2020
(09-11-2020, 06:42 AM)Protheroe Wrote: Nuance is clearly beyond you Derek.
Masks, clearly, don't seem to have helped - as rising cases and reduced social distancing suggest. There never was much evidence for mask wearing.
There is very little risk of Covid 19 for the vast majority of the population. Selective lockdown is much more preferable in my opinion.
Climate change is occurring. The state response will make little difference set against the ludicrous costs we could incur. The fight against climate change and environmental degradation won't be helped by impoverishing ourselves.
Does anyone like the BBC?
Not sure what I'm defending, and pointing to the hypocrisy of the EU's protectionist racket is hardly whataboutery.
There is lots of evidence for mask wearing and you appear to be confusing the failure to measure cases early on with being able to measure them now as comparable points - of all the points you make that really does highlight how ignorant you are to the reality of thisIt also shows your basic understanding of statistics is truly flawed.
There is very little risk of dying from Covid 19 for the vast majority of the population, the understanding of the longer term risks from the virus is unknown - again a real basic lack of understanding of the virus shown. It really does highlight how poorly educated you are on the subject with such basic errors of comment.
Selective lockdown is what is happening - or are you suggesting that those (lets say under 45) can go about their business without worry of spreading the disease, if so that again is a real basic misunderstanding of the transmission of the virus. And doing that without any plan for those that are affected by the virus is an unacceptable approach in a modern society that isn't based on Logan's Run.
You really are poorly informed on this and that in itself is what will cause this to carry on for longer than necessary and damage the economy much further than your short term view.
RE: UK Covid death toll - JOK - 09-11-2020
(09-11-2020, 08:00 AM)Protheroe Wrote:In stead of chanting the phrase “any of you actually aware of the way the EU has undermined “ why don’t you just make those you suspect of “ being unaware” familiar by quoting examples. Gain saying is not the way to get your point over let alone win an argument.(09-11-2020, 07:52 AM)JOK Wrote: You are not doing your EU argument any favours by referring to EU hypocrisy but not citing any examples.
I'm keen to understand whether any of you are actually aware of the way the EU has undermined the foundations of its biggest project. It seems not.