(12-12-2021, 09:01 PM)baggy1 Wrote: Fair enough but it has meant I’ve had to dive into the figures. It levels out the ages in this way - the older population are more likely to both be impacted by the virus and also be vaccinated, so for those over 50 you would expect to see those numbers in hospital would be made up of mainly vaccinated folk. Over 50s in hospital - 4,618 of which 1,077 were unvaccinated (23.3%). For the under 50s there were 2,021 of which 1,278 unvaccinated and 123 with only 1 jab (63.23% unvaccinated, 69.3% one jab max).

When you go deeper into the numbers it also shows that for the 50-59 age group there’s 1,115 in hospital with 408 not vaccinated (36%).

Bottom line is that 2k of the 6k in hospital were unvaccinated and adding to the strain in the hospitals and other services. It should be recognised the extra pressure it is putting on everything when it could be easily solved.

(12-12-2021, 09:12 PM)baggiebuckster Wrote: So the vaccine passports will require 3 jabs by the middle/end of Jan then I assume?

After all Boris said ' It is now clear that two doses of of the vaccine are simply not good enough to give the level of protection we need'.

And yet is going to allow the 80+% of people who are currently double jabbed to use a passport to enter an event without being required to take a test. No wonder it is spreading so fast.

(12-12-2021, 09:16 PM)backsidebaggie Wrote:

(12-12-2021, 09:01 PM)baggy1 Wrote: Fair enough but it has meant I’ve had to dive into the figures. It levels out the ages in this way - the older population are more likely to both be impacted by the virus and also be vaccinated, so for those over 50 you would expect to see those numbers in hospital would be made up of mainly vaccinated folk. Over 50s in hospital - 4,618 of which 1,077 were unvaccinated (23.3%). For the under 50s there were 2,021 of which 1,278 unvaccinated and 123 with only 1 jab (63.23% unvaccinated, 69.3% one jab max).

When you go deeper into the numbers it also shows that for the 50-59 age group there’s 1,115 in hospital with 408 not vaccinated (36%).

Bottom line is that 2k of the 6k in hospital were unvaccinated and adding to the strain in the hospitals and other services. It should be recognised the extra pressure it is putting on everything when it could be easily solved.

Would it be solved though? It would reduce the 2k to maybe 500?? So yes that would reduce the overall number by maybe 1500, I agree. Is there about 200 nhs hospitals in the uk? So 8 patients per hospital could be reduced right now (appreciate the numbers are low at present).

I understand ICU is important and I don’t have the figures for that.

(12-12-2021, 09:29 PM)baggy1 Wrote:

(12-12-2021, 09:12 PM)baggiebuckster Wrote: So the vaccine passports will require 3 jabs by the middle/end of Jan then I assume?

After all Boris said ' It is now clear that two doses of of the vaccine are simply not good enough to give the level of protection we need'.

And yet is going to allow the 80+% of people who are currently double jabbed to use a passport to enter an event without being required to take a test. No wonder it is spreading so fast.

What would you suggest we do?

---

(12-12-2021, 09:16 PM)backsidebaggie Wrote:

(12-12-2021, 09:01 PM)baggy1 Wrote: Fair enough but it has meant I’ve had to dive into the figures. It levels out the ages in this way - the older population are more likely to both be impacted by the virus and also be vaccinated, so for those over 50 you would expect to see those numbers in hospital would be made up of mainly vaccinated folk. Over 50s in hospital - 4,618 of which 1,077 were unvaccinated (23.3%). For the under 50s there were 2,021 of which 1,278 unvaccinated and 123 with only 1 jab (63.23% unvaccinated, 69.3% one jab max).

When you go deeper into the numbers it also shows that for the 50-59 age group there’s 1,115 in hospital with 408 not vaccinated (36%).

Bottom line is that 2k of the 6k in hospital were unvaccinated and adding to the strain in the hospitals and other services. It should be recognised the extra pressure it is putting on everything when it could be easily solved.

Would it be solved though? It would reduce the 2k to maybe 500?? So yes that would reduce the overall number by maybe 1500, I agree. Is there about 200 nhs hospitals in the uk? So 8 patients per hospital could be reduced right now (appreciate the numbers are low at present).

I understand ICU is important and I don’t have the figures for that.

I suspect that the spread is a bit more focussed than evenly dispersed and the care needed for each patient takes up nursing staff that could be used elsewhere. Whichever way it is looked at the more jabbed the better as far as I can see

(12-12-2021, 09:29 PM)baggy1 Wrote:

(12-12-2021, 09:12 PM)baggiebuckster Wrote: So the vaccine passports will require 3 jabs by the middle/end of Jan then I assume?

After all Boris said ' It is now clear that two doses of of the vaccine are simply not good enough to give the level of protection we need'.

And yet is going to allow the 80+% of people who are currently double jabbed to use a passport to enter an event without being required to take a test. No wonder it is spreading so fast.

What would you suggest we do?

(12-12-2021, 09:50 PM)backsidebaggie Wrote:

(12-12-2021, 09:29 PM)baggy1 Wrote:

(12-12-2021, 09:12 PM)baggiebuckster Wrote: So the vaccine passports will require 3 jabs by the middle/end of Jan then I assume?

After all Boris said ' It is now clear that two doses of of the vaccine are simply not good enough to give the level of protection we need'.

And yet is going to allow the 80+% of people who are currently double jabbed to use a passport to enter an event without being required to take a test. No wonder it is spreading so fast.

What would you suggest we do?

---

(12-12-2021, 09:16 PM)backsidebaggie Wrote:

(12-12-2021, 09:01 PM)baggy1 Wrote: Fair enough but it has meant I’ve had to dive into the figures. It levels out the ages in this way - the older population are more likely to both be impacted by the virus and also be vaccinated, so for those over 50 you would expect to see those numbers in hospital would be made up of mainly vaccinated folk. Over 50s in hospital - 4,618 of which 1,077 were unvaccinated (23.3%). For the under 50s there were 2,021 of which 1,278 unvaccinated and 123 with only 1 jab (63.23% unvaccinated, 69.3% one jab max).

When you go deeper into the numbers it also shows that for the 50-59 age group there’s 1,115 in hospital with 408 not vaccinated (36%).

Bottom line is that 2k of the 6k in hospital were unvaccinated and adding to the strain in the hospitals and other services. It should be recognised the extra pressure it is putting on everything when it could be easily solved.

Would it be solved though? It would reduce the 2k to maybe 500?? So yes that would reduce the overall number by maybe 1500, I agree. Is there about 200 nhs hospitals in the uk? So 8 patients per hospital could be reduced right now (appreciate the numbers are low at present).

I understand ICU is important and I don’t have the figures for that.

I suspect that the spread is a bit more focussed than evenly dispersed and the care needed for each patient takes up nursing staff that could be used elsewhere. Whichever way it is looked at the more jabbed the better as far as I can see

Yes those are fair points. But we’re still talking about small numbers per hospital, not overflowing wards and patients in corridors. How many nhs beds would be saved if there was an exercise drive to tackle obesity? Or stricter measures on smoking and drinking? The same could be said for so many aspects of life. Given these numbers per hospital, at what point do we actually have to protect the nhs, when it is there to protect us?

I reckon the vast majority of the public wouldn’t look at the stats we’re discussing. My guess is a large percentage would be staggered at these stats, and would have a much more severe picture of things in their mind right now given politicians and the media’s portrayal of the current situation.

And on the wider points we’ve discussed on passports and segregation, the disproportionate effect on the poor, and finally mandation…. Crikey, would this really in any way proportionate. If the wards were spilling over perhaps. But if every adult was vaccinated, right now there’d be 8 beds saved per hospital, maybe a dozen at the most? Even if we have another bad wave would that get more than 20/30/40 beds? The difference between a good and bad flu year maybe? This is why I can’t help but be alarmed by what’s going on here.

(12-12-2021, 09:51 PM)baggiebuckster Wrote:

(12-12-2021, 09:29 PM)baggy1 Wrote:

(12-12-2021, 09:12 PM)baggiebuckster Wrote: So the vaccine passports will require 3 jabs by the middle/end of Jan then I assume?

After all Boris said ' It is now clear that two doses of of the vaccine are simply not good enough to give the level of protection we need'.

And yet is going to allow the 80+% of people who are currently double jabbed to use a passport to enter an event without being required to take a test. No wonder it is spreading so fast.

What would you suggest we do?

If you are trying to reduce the spread then everyone should be required to take a test irrespective of vaccine status. It is pretty obvious now that the protection afforded double jabbed people is negligible.

(12-12-2021, 10:42 PM)baggiebuckster Wrote: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/10/two-jabs-give-less-protection-against-catching-omicron-than-delta-uk-data-shows

A quote from that article:

Dr Susan Hopkins, the UKHSA’s chief medical adviser, said: “I think what we’re seeing is that if you’ve had two doses more than three months ago, then it’s not going to prevent you from getting symptomatic disease.”

Figures I read the other day stated Pfizer at best 30% and AZ next to nothing. Certainly not good enough to give privileges to people.