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+--- Thread: UK Covid death toll (/showthread.php?tid=10162)
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RE: UK Covid death toll - Birdman1811 - 12-12-2021
Lets face it.
If we lock down again, is life worth living, this isn't going away?
I'd say no to be honest. I don't see the point in an existence like this.
RE: UK Covid death toll - Protheroe - 12-12-2021
(12-12-2021, 12:07 PM)baggy1 Wrote: Closing schools early in the pandemic and up until we had the vaccination program in place was key to reducing spread and keeping hospitalisation numbers down. That also gave the government time to roll out measures for schools including ventilation systems, protection for teachers and other staff and testing systems in place to allow schools to reopen whilst protecting the staff. What surprises me, when tbh I’m surprised that I am surprised, is that the DFE hasn’t rolled out improved ventilation systems (not just opening a window) to all schools. I would have thought this would have been the minimum.
Anyone who believes closing schools should be anything but the last resort doesn't have scooby what closing schools actually means to millions of kids. Particularly kids starved of stimulation, affection, warmth, a hot meal or space to think. I've heard some truly appalling tales from governers on the impact school closures have had on kids' behaviour and attainment - and hence life chances.
RE: UK Covid death toll - Derek Hardballs - 12-12-2021
(12-12-2021, 03:48 PM)Protheroe Wrote:(12-12-2021, 12:07 PM)baggy1 Wrote: Closing schools early in the pandemic and up until we had the vaccination program in place was key to reducing spread and keeping hospitalisation numbers down. That also gave the government time to roll out measures for schools including ventilation systems, protection for teachers and other staff and testing systems in place to allow schools to reopen whilst protecting the staff. What surprises me, when tbh I’m surprised that I am surprised, is that the DFE hasn’t rolled out improved ventilation systems (not just opening a window) to all schools. I would have thought this would have been the minimum.
Anyone who believes closing schools should be anything but the last resort doesn't have scooby what closing schools actually means to millions of kids. Particularly kids starved of stimulation, affection, warmth, a hot meal or space to think. I've heard some truly appalling tales from governers on the impact school closures have had on kids' behaviour and attainment - and hence life chances.
If libertarians in the Tory party care about vulnerable / poor children they would not have ended the universal credit uplift, argued long and hard for no extension of free school meals and supported real term cuts over several years. I do find it incredibly hard to stomach the hypocrisy and faux concern that Libertarian’s use to justly their ideology of letting the virus rip through schools. If they want kids to stay in school make the places safer for children, staff and their families many of whom will have vulnerable adult family members and siblings.
Example1
Example 2
If this concern was from others who had condemned the last ten or so years of austerity, closures of youth clubs, cutting money to the disabled, draconian measures introduced through UVC then fair enough but the absolute brass neck of those who have suddenly become poor and vulnerable childrens champions is as impressive as it is awful!
Judge people by their actions not words. The 60 Tory rebels have done absolutely nothing for the vulnerable, poor and young.
RE: UK Covid death toll - baggiebuckster - 12-12-2021
Boris to make another announcement tonight at 8pm apparently.
Must be serious if he is working on a weekend.
RE: UK Covid death toll - baggy1 - 12-12-2021
(12-12-2021, 03:48 PM)Protheroe Wrote:(12-12-2021, 12:07 PM)baggy1 Wrote: Closing schools early in the pandemic and up until we had the vaccination program in place was key to reducing spread and keeping hospitalisation numbers down. That also gave the government time to roll out measures for schools including ventilation systems, protection for teachers and other staff and testing systems in place to allow schools to reopen whilst protecting the staff. What surprises me, when tbh I’m surprised that I am surprised, is that the DFE hasn’t rolled out improved ventilation systems (not just opening a window) to all schools. I would have thought this would have been the minimum.
Anyone who believes closing schools should be anything but the last resort doesn't have scooby what closing schools actually means to millions of kids. Particularly kids starved of stimulation, affection, warmth, a hot meal or space to think. I've heard some truly appalling tales from governers on the impact school closures have had on kids' behaviour and attainment - and hence life chances.
Which is exactly why they should have thrown the kitchen sink at getting schools covid-ready instead of giving them the advice to open the windows. Poundshop Trump providing Poundshop policy and solutions.
RE: UK Covid death toll - backsidebaggie - 12-12-2021
(12-12-2021, 03:18 PM)Birdman1811 Wrote: Lets face it.
If we lock down again, is life worth living, this isn't going away?
I'd say no to be honest. I don't see the point in an existence like this.
I agree.
I find the psychology of all this fascinating. I actually think many folks enjoy the lockdowns…. As in they make them feel like they’re really part of something. “All in this together” type thing, which IMO isn’t really true anyway, as has been seen by the disproportionate impact of lockdowns on the poor, and the transfer of wealth throughout the last two years.
Trouble is many tend to largely ignore the other impacts. Public health now means covid health to many. There’s not enough balancing of this against the other damages to health and society IMO. As I’ve said before, many now make every decision or hold every opinion through a “covid lens”, a result I believe of 21 months solid covid news.
RE: UK Covid death toll - baggy1 - 12-12-2021
I think it’s pretty clear that no-one wants any more lockdowns which is why there is so much frustration at those not wanting to get jabs, which is the only reason we will be facing any more lockdowns. The only thing that has worked effectively en masse are the vaccines, without them we would never have come out of a longer on/off lockdown. People seem to forget the all-death numbers raised 15% in 2020, forget about the long term health problems of covid and the knock on of having hospitals full of covid patients meaning less treatment of the other illnesses and the longer term hit on those.
You’re correct BB that people tend to largely ignore the other impacts and simply feel that we are through this now. 6k in hospital at the moment taking up vital resource from an exhausted NHS, 80% of those unjabbed.
RE: UK Covid death toll - backsidebaggie - 12-12-2021
(12-12-2021, 07:34 PM)baggy1 Wrote: I think it’s pretty clear that no-one wants any more lockdowns which is why there is so much frustration at those not wanting to get jabs, which is the only reason we will be facing any more lockdowns. The only thing that has worked effectively en masse are the vaccines, without them we would never have come out of a longer on/off lockdown. People seem to forget the all-death numbers raised 15% in 2020, forget about the long term health problems of covid and the knock on of having hospitals full of covid patients meaning less treatment of the other illnesses and the longer term hit on those.
You’re correct BB that people tend to largely ignore the other impacts and simply feel that we are through this now. 6k in hospital at the moment taking up vital resource from an exhausted NHS, 80% of those unjabbed.
https://fullfact.org/health/dr-hilary-lorraine-kelly-90-percent/
36% unjabbed according to this.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1039677/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_49.pdf#page35
Page 31 onwards has some numbers to crunch. Clearly the vaccine has an effect reducing serious illness and hospitalisation. However, it’s not as significant as the government and media suggest from what I can see. Happy to be corrected if I’m wrong.
5% of beds taken up by covid patients I’ve read (not sure if that’s true). Is that particularly huge for respiratory illnesses at this time of year? Genuinely don’t know.
As you’ve said with your stat analysis, the hospital numbers don’t seem to indicate things are too bad.
RE: UK Covid death toll - baggy1 - 12-12-2021
Not certain on that one bb, this is where I got my figures from: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/slides-to-accompany-coronavirus-press-conference-8-december-2021
Have a look at the 5th slide - that appears to indicate that the vast majority of those resulting in an overnight stay are unvaccinated.
RE: UK Covid death toll - backsidebaggie - 12-12-2021
(12-12-2021, 08:32 PM)baggy1 Wrote: Not certain on that one bb, this is where I got my figures from: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/slides-to-accompany-coronavirus-press-conference-8-december-2021
Have a look at the 5th slide - that appears to indicate that the vast majority of those resulting in an overnight stay are unvaccinated.
Isn’t that rates per 100k? Whereas the link I posted was totals? Both are government figures.
So if 36% in hospital are unvaccinated, but they make up a smaller percentage of the population, the rates per 100k would still be higher for unvaccinated? That’s why I said it clearly has a positive effect, but not as much as we’re led to believe by some of the lazy headlines of saying the hospitals are “full of unvaxed”. That’s simply not true. It’s 36%. But with 85% adults vaccinated, the rates per 100k are still higher for unvaccinated, therefore showing the vaccine does definitely help. Just not as much as we’re led to believe IMO.