(06-18-2025, 03:45 PM)Logic1 Wrote: The problem with the right is that they seem to have this religion that the only way to get growth is via tax cuts. This is delusional, and I can assure you, I am personally very impacted by a certain marginal tax rate, that I do well to avoid. Go and read books on long run growth theory etc. and you will discover that tax is not a key driver. Even if all the anomalies of the tax system were eliminated, it would have a rather trivial impact on growth. The UK is in the middle when it comes to tax relative to OECD peers, some have higher taxes than us and higher growth rates, some have lower taxes than us and have higher growth rates. The main determinants of growth are the combination of investment (both private and public) that improves the capital stock (tangible, intangible), growth in labour (typically high-skill human capital) and innovation. The latter (according to Mr Solow) is of critical importance as it weaves the two together-one could argue that that itself is driven by the combination of government and private business working in tandem.

(06-18-2025, 05:11 PM)Logic1 Wrote: I should have written...

The problem with the right is that they seem to have this religion that the only way to get growth is via tax cuts and eliminating distortions.

To be fair, George Osborne (one would regard him as a neo-liberal) didn't exactly do much in terms of eliminating distortions (cost me about 20k with the child benefit changes).


I am sympathetic to your view, getting rid of the distortions e.g. broader VAT base, lower income tax and capital taxes might marginally improve growth, but the effects would be somewhat trivial. They may even lead to higher interest rates. The fundamental causes of growth are much more difficult to tackle. Hence, why the Tories and Labour have struggled. I got to speak to Rachael Reeves once and quizzed her on this, she knew I was right, but she smiled and basically made me out to be a dismal scientist. To be fair to Labour, at least they have some ideas. I hope to be optimistic about the industrial strategy. The reality is, the combination of the GFC, austerity, the response to COVID and Brexit has massively damaged this economy.

(06-16-2025, 09:21 PM)baggy1 Wrote: It really is how you frame them - IHT including Pensions now for example.

This was seen as a way around paying tax and storing money up into a pot that won’t be taxed by inheritance tax. The reason for paying into a pension is to provide you with an income when you retire, you get your contributions tax free and you get to withdraw a quarter of it tax free when you retire. You can then use the rest to live the life you have planned for. But those that could afford paying more in saw a tax benefit available to them by protecting it from being added to their estate when they die, a legitimate way of avoiding tax but not what it was designed for. Nasty Reeves then closed that loophole and apparently that is now a disincentive to invest in pensions which prop up the stock market - the reality is it’s just made rich people have less ways of protecting their wealth from tax.

Dekka is crying out for a wealth tax and one was put in place under his nose. Proth is pissed off because he might end up paying some tax, and Chunk is pissed off because the daily express told him to be.

And that is either a disincentive or a good way of collecting tax from the wealthiest to protect the future of the country. Irony being that Reeves will probably not see the benefit of this because it won’t really kick in for a few years, but it is a good way of taxing the wealthiest without punishing those that will only be able to get enough in their pensions to live off - i.e. what a pension was designed for.

(06-19-2025, 11:02 AM)baggy1 Wrote: You get pissed of with what the latest Daily Express headline tells you to on that day. You stood by for years cheering on the Tories as they ran our infrastructure into the ground and handed out contracts to their mates. You waved the red white and blue when we got our sovereignty back and laughed when you were getting cheap lobster in covid times on the taxpayer. You are now reaping what you sew - if only this anger was there when the Tories were in power.

You're obsessed with the meaningless parts that you are being told to look at - polls that mean nothing, free money to pensioners that don't need it, bringing farmers closer to the rules that everyone else has to live by, boats full of 'fighting age' men, grooming gangs.

You should start every post with 'I don't know', that would make it easier for us to have some sympathy. It's only what we all already know.

(06-19-2025, 11:39 AM)Kit Kat Chunky Wrote:

(06-19-2025, 11:02 AM)baggy1 Wrote: You get pissed of with what the latest Daily Express headline tells you to on that day. You stood by for years cheering on the Tories as they ran our infrastructure into the ground and handed out contracts to their mates. You waved the red white and blue when we got our sovereignty back and laughed when you were getting cheap lobster in covid times on the taxpayer. You are now reaping what you sew - if only this anger was there when the Tories were in power.

You're obsessed with the meaningless parts that you are being told to look at - polls that mean nothing, free money to pensioners that don't need it, bringing farmers closer to the rules that everyone else has to live by, boats full of 'fighting age' men, grooming gangs.

You should start every post with 'I don't know', that would make it easier for us to have some sympathy. It's only what we all already know.

I don't read the Daily Express. I'm guessing you read Socialist Worker. - Voting Labour is not voting for SWP

Rather than respond to your cheap, completing unfounded insults (I guess because you are struggling), lets look at a few facts.

The economy growth is weak (Bank of England press conference today). - UK Growth 2010: 2.2%, 11: 1.1%, 12: 1,5%, 13: 1.8%, 14: 3.2%, 15: 2.2%, 16: 1.9%, 17: 2.7, 18: 1.4%, 19: 1.6, 20, 21 and 22: Covid affected; 23: 0.3%, 24: 1.1% - When hasn't it been weak and where were you shouting about this for the last decade and a half?

The labour market is softening (Bank of England press conference today). - See above

Inflation is higher than it has been for 12 months, and above target (ONS stats). Strange you pick just 12 months and on a month it has come down as well  https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/inflation-cpi

WFA was taken off all pensioners last winter. - No it wasn't - fucks sake mon, get your facts right

PIP is proposed to be reduced, and expected to carry through parliament when voted upon. - PIP is proposed to be reduced where it isn't being applied properly or needed.

Tax take is reducing due to businesses closing, and flight from the country. where do you get your info from, Gbeebies? Tax revenue increased 3,8% in 2024/25 as at May https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hmrc-tax-and-nics-receipts-for-the-uk/hmrc-tax-receipts-and-national-insurance-contributions-for-the-uk-new-annual-bulletin

IFS suggesting basic rate income tax will have to increase in the 2025 budget - No shit sherlock, when we are as fucked as this country is where do you expect to find the money. You've actually moaned about money being paid out and are now moaning about money being collected in. 



Please tell me what this shambolic government is actually doing right. This is now down to them, not what they inherited. Student Union economics.

(06-19-2025, 12:01 PM)baggy1 Wrote:

(06-19-2025, 11:39 AM)Kit Kat Chunky Wrote:

(06-19-2025, 11:02 AM)baggy1 Wrote: You get pissed of with what the latest Daily Express headline tells you to on that day. You stood by for years cheering on the Tories as they ran our infrastructure into the ground and handed out contracts to their mates. You waved the red white and blue when we got our sovereignty back and laughed when you were getting cheap lobster in covid times on the taxpayer. You are now reaping what you sew - if only this anger was there when the Tories were in power.

You're obsessed with the meaningless parts that you are being told to look at - polls that mean nothing, free money to pensioners that don't need it, bringing farmers closer to the rules that everyone else has to live by, boats full of 'fighting age' men, grooming gangs.

You should start every post with 'I don't know', that would make it easier for us to have some sympathy. It's only what we all already know.

I don't read the Daily Express. I'm guessing you read Socialist Worker. - Voting Labour is not voting for SWP

Rather than respond to your cheap, completing unfounded insults (I guess because you are struggling), lets look at a few facts.

The economy growth is weak (Bank of England press conference today). - UK Growth 2010: 2.2%, 11: 1.1%, 12: 1,5%, 13: 1.8%, 14: 3.2%, 15: 2.2%, 16: 1.9%, 17: 2.7, 18: 1.4%, 19: 1.6, 20, 21 and 22: Covid affected; 23: 0.3%, 24: 1.1% - When hasn't it been weak and where were you shouting about this for the last decade and a half?

The labour market is softening (Bank of England press conference today). - See above

Inflation is higher than it has been for 12 months, and above target (ONS stats). Strange you pick just 12 months and on a month it has come down as well  https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/inflation-cpi

WFA was taken off all pensioners last winter. - No it wasn't - fucks sake mon, get your facts right

PIP is proposed to be reduced, and expected to carry through parliament when voted upon. - PIP is proposed to be reduced where it isn't being applied properly or needed.

Tax take is reducing due to businesses closing, and flight from the country. where do you get your info from, Gbeebies? Tax revenue increased 3,8% in 2024/25 as at May https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hmrc-tax-and-nics-receipts-for-the-uk/hmrc-tax-receipts-and-national-insurance-contributions-for-the-uk-new-annual-bulletin

IFS suggesting basic rate income tax will have to increase in the 2025 budget - No shit sherlock, when we are as fucked as this country is where do you expect to find the money. You've actually moaned about money being paid out and are now moaning about money being collected in. 



Please tell me what this shambolic government is actually doing right. This is now down to them, not what they inherited. Student Union economics.

Stop being a plank - start looking at the bigger picture and face up to he damage that has been caused by the last decade and a half and realise that this is going to be painful to fix. Even Proth was stating that whoever was in power this time would have it tough.

And as for what is actually being done right, two trade deals and a mitigation of the damage caused by the looney toon in the White House. Protected the UK car making industry - JLR facing real problems if the tariffs hadn’t been managed properly. Deal agreed with one of the largest growing economies in the world and one with our biggest trading partner.

Saved the UK steel industry and the jobs in that crucial sector.

But boo hoo rich folk have to pay VAT on education.

(06-19-2025, 12:41 PM)Kit Kat Chunky Wrote: Stop being a plank. Only Labour promised a "fully costed" solution. Where is it? 

This government is a busted flush. The complete country can see it. 

A trade deal has not been done with the USA - that would need to go through the two houses, and it hasn't. It is an agreement. Starmer's "brown nosing" has achieved something, but how long will it last? Trump will change his tune after the state visit in September.

Saved the car industry? How about MG Rover and Vauxhall Luton closing on their watch.