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+--- Thread: UK Covid death toll (/showthread.php?tid=10162)
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RE: UK Covid death toll - baggy1 - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 09:24 AM)baggiebuckster Wrote: Surely a more telling statistic would be the percentage of people in hospital who have tested positive for Covid that are actually receiving treatment for Covid.
Surely a more telling statistic is the amount of people admitted to hospital taking up hospital beds because of covid. Cases is and always will be relative to the number of tests, hospitalisation is solid data. Unfortunately that figure is still rising in England with over 5k in hospital with covid. The longer we faff about trying to get whatever viewpoint you have i.e. restrictions good or bad, ignores the key point of whether restrictions are needed at all. Hopefully the news this week will filter through to numbers in hospital falling but we aren't there yet, so forgive me if I'm not waving the freedom flag on VC day yet.
There need to be some grown up conversations had about it instead of 'well its not that bad because most people are catching it in hospital'. Apart from the fact that they aren't, the point that they are taking up hospital beds is the key point. By them taking up those beds it means that other treatments can't be carried out and people suffer.
RE: UK Covid death toll - baggiebuckster - 07-27-2021
If they went in for another problem and then tested positive they would still be taking up a bed. It doesn't mean that they are now in a bed receiving Covid treatment.
RE: UK Covid death toll - baggy1 - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 09:40 AM)baggiebuckster Wrote: If they went in for another problem and then tested positive they would still be taking up a bed. It doesn't mean that they are now in a bed receiving Covid treatment.
Unfortunately that isn't correct BB, if they have covid they have to be separated from the non-covid population therefore taking up a covid bed.
RE: UK Covid death toll - Derek Hardballs - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 08:25 AM)baggy1 Wrote:(07-27-2021, 08:01 AM)Protheroe Wrote:(07-27-2021, 07:52 AM)Malcolm Tucker Wrote: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/more-half-covid-patients-hospital-24623148
Yes, it looks like the 40% figure I was quoting a couple of weeks ago was a substantial underestimate.
Not really the issue is it though - covid is taking up hospital beds and that will cause problems no matter which way you spin it. It really would be helpful if you'd add some substance to the discussion rather than sound bites. Hospitalisations are still going up and trying to give the impression it's all down to some data flaw is dangerous. You've been repeatedly wrong during this pandemic and need to start to take it seriously or we'll never get back on our feet, we'll just stumble from one restriction to the next.
Proth doing his best impression of an ERG / Covid Recovery Warrior, he will be out on patrols with Mark Francios next.
RE: UK Covid death toll - Protheroe - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 08:54 AM)Borin' Baggie Wrote:(07-27-2021, 08:38 AM)Protheroe Wrote:(07-27-2021, 08:23 AM)Borin' Baggie Wrote: "people being admitted with unknown illnesses"
That's not what it says at all, is it?
Err, yes it does. The Telegraph even caveated their article with the below:
"Crucially, this group does not distinguish between those admitted because of severe illness, later found to be caused by the virus, and those in hospital for different reasons who might otherwise never have known that they had picked it up"
You simply can't extrapolate this data into how many cases were caught in hospital as it makes no distinction about how many of those cases were caught outside of hospital and only detected in a hospital.
Is anyone presenting at hospital for a scheduled procedure without having been tested first? Not as far as I know.
If the proportion of scheduled procedures makes up the majority of admissions to hospital then it's not correct to talk about people being admitted with "unknown illnesses" who then test for Covid. There must be substantial transmission in care settings, just as there is for other hospital acquired infections.
(07-27-2021, 10:28 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Proth doing his best impression of an ERG / Covid Recovery Warrior, he will be out on patrols with Mark Francios next.
Stick to cowering Dekka
RE: UK Covid death toll - baggy1 - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 11:34 AM)Protheroe Wrote: Is anyone presenting at hospital for a scheduled procedure without having been tested first? Not as far as I know.
If the proportion of scheduled procedures makes up the majority of admissions to hospital then it's not correct to talk about people being admitted with "unknown illnesses" who then test for Covid. There must be substantial transmission in care settings, just as there is for other hospital acquired infections.
"Not as far as I know" - you have shown throughout this thread how little you know on the subject so why you suddenly have an insight into what happens pre-scheduled appointments does surprise me. I had to go to Good Hope a few weeks ago with a shoulder injury, it was pre-scheduled and I wasn't asked to complete any test prior to attendance. I also didn't have to take a test whilst I was there.
Could it be that if someone attends hospital for whatever reason and then shows symptoms of covid that they will then give them a test, and therefore be shown to have found out about having covid after arriving. The chances are that they have gone to hospital because they are having some covid related difficulties and when tested after admission it is confirmed.
On this whole subject you have been a dangerous fool, looking for 'well it's not as bad as all that' scenarios continuously is just stupid.
RE: UK Covid death toll - Borin' Baggie - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 11:34 AM)Protheroe Wrote: Is anyone presenting at hospital for a scheduled procedure without having been tested first? Not as far as I know.
There is zero reference to this data being with respect to scheduled procedures, it also covers emergency and walk-ins as a catch-all. As I said, you can't infer anything from the data other than 56% of those in hospital who are known to have Covid were found to have tested after admittance. That 56% of people includes people who were brought in for something related to Covid and found to have had it after their admittance and those who caught it in hospital but there is no breakdown in the available data beyond that 56% so anything beyond that is guesswork and speculation.
RE: UK Covid death toll - baggiebuckster - 07-27-2021
Not necessarily. As I stated on here months ago my Dad fell down the stairs and fractured his spine. When he was admitted he was given a Covid test even though he had zero symptoms.
RE: UK Covid death toll - baggy1 - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 12:11 PM)baggiebuckster Wrote: Not necessarily. As I stated on here months ago my Dad fell down the stairs and fractured his spine. When he was admitted he was given a Covid test even though he had zero symptoms.
Probably as they were looking to keep him in overnight - if they had put him on a non-covid ward and he was positive he would have spread covid to the other patients. This is really basic stuff that after 18 months I find amazing that people still don't understand.
RE: UK Covid death toll - baggiebuckster - 07-27-2021
I do understand. I think we are at crossed purposes here. I am looking at it from a number of people being actually treated for Covid whereas I believe you are referencing those people who are in a Covid ward taking up a bed irrespective of their main reason for admission.
I get your point - if they have to go in a Covid ward then it is a Covid bed that someone else could have used.