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+--- Thread: UK Covid death toll (/showthread.php?tid=10162)
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RE: UK Covid death toll - baggy1 - 07-07-2021
(07-06-2021, 07:22 PM)Tom Joad Wrote:baggy1 Wrote:Not my experience at all. My local can't afford to continue. it's normally a crowded live sports/live music venue which needs almost as many staff to serve a few tables. They can't even afford the Sky Sports fee (linked to business rates amount) and there isn't enough trade to pay a band. I know a few similar to this.Protheroe Wrote:baggy1 Wrote:It would be slightly better if the government would support businesses that want to continue to have some restrictions in place through the law, for example, if you want to continue to run a bar with only table service and masks to be worn when moving around, it would be helpful to that business to know they have the backing of the law if some gobshite decides he doesn't want to comply with those rules. At the moment the reliance has been placed on staff of the premises to deal with as the police would have no powers.
That's not what I understood.
I took that from him saying that there would be no legal requirement or something similar but could have been wrong on that. Hopefully you're correct and the business owners would have the protection of the law of they told someone their requirements on premises. I can see some businesses carrying on the 'table service' model as they will attract customers that don't want to be in crowded bars.
Not saying they shouldn't be able to open up Tom, just saying that if a business wanted to offer table service only they could and have some confidence that if they needed it they could get the police involved to help remove anyone that felt they knew better.
(07-07-2021, 07:54 AM)JOK Wrote:(07-06-2021, 11:36 AM)baggy1 Wrote: It would be slightly better if the government would support businesses that want to continue to have some restrictions in place through the law, for example, if you want to continue to run a bar with only table service and masks to be worn when moving around, it would be helpful to that business to know they have the backing of the law if some gobshite decides he doesn't want to comply with those rules. At the moment the reliance has been placed on staff of the premises to deal with as the police would have no powers.
What protection in law do these private company instructions have?
No photography in theatre auditoriums, must remove a motorcycle helmet in a bank or shop, only one person in a shop’s changing room, no dogs in a children’s play area (non council), no second helpings of meat at a carvery, ‘staff only’ areas, staying behind a rope barrier at a tourist attraction / heritage site etc.
Just watched a montage vid on the BBC site and Boris, Sajid Javid, Tom Hunt,(Con. M.P.) do all encourage continued wearing of face masks in certain, crowded, situations. Does beg the question why feel the need to take the compulsory element away just yet
Got this off the gov.uk site -
Enforcement measures for failing to comply with this law
Premises where face coverings are required should take reasonable steps to promote compliance with the law.
The police can take measures if members of the public do not comply with this law without a valid exemption and transport operators can deny access to their public transport services if a passenger is not wearing a face covering, or direct them to wear one or leave a service.
If necessary the police and Transport for London (TfL) officers have enforcement powers, including issuing fines of £200 (reduced to £100 if paid within 14 days) for the first offence.
Repeat offenders receiving fines on public transport or in an indoor setting will have their fines doubled at each offence.
After the first offence there will be no discount. For example, receiving a second fine will amount to £400 and a third fine will be £800, up to a maximum value of £6,400.
I'm guessing that once all restrictions have been removed then this won't apply. Don't get me wrong I expect that if a business requests people to wear masks and not stand at the bar then the vast majority of people will comply with that (we're British after all) but there will be occasions where some gobshite will be running their gob off saying that covid isn't a risk to us any more and they are having their civil liberties curtailed or pretending to understand what Human Rights are all about.
RE: UK Covid death toll - Derek Hardballs - 07-07-2021
Just listening to LBC and a steward at Wembley has just said fans are simply sharing negative Covid tests amongst themselves to gain access in the ground. Apparently there is no check on ID or validity. Excellent system.
RE: UK Covid death toll - baggy1 - 07-07-2021
(07-07-2021, 08:32 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Just listening to LBC and a steward at Wembley has just said fans are simply sharing negative Covid tests amongst themselves to gain access in the ground. Apparently there is no check on ID or validity. Excellent system.
And unfortunately that is what is going to occur and it appears the government have washed their hands of this and expect bar staff, safety marshalls and shop staff to police it.
RE: UK Covid death toll - Borin' Baggie - 07-07-2021
(07-07-2021, 08:32 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Just listening to LBC and a steward at Wembley has just said fans are simply sharing negative Covid tests amongst themselves to gain access in the ground. Apparently there is no check on ID or validity. Excellent system.
And kids were using lemon juice to fake positive tests
RE: UK Covid death toll - JOK - 07-07-2021
(07-07-2021, 08:34 AM)baggy1 Wrote:(07-07-2021, 08:32 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Just listening to LBC and a steward at Wembley has just said fans are simply sharing negative Covid tests amongst themselves to gain access in the ground. Apparently there is no check on ID or validity. Excellent system.
And unfortunately that is what is going to occur and it appears the government have washed their hands of this and expect bar staff, safety marshalls and shop staff to police it.
So, it’s not being ‘policed’ now; what will be the difference on the 19th? How do you police it? How do you check everyone’s ID and test results / Proof of having had the double dose of vac, quickly? Who do you say should be doing it, the police?
Please, would you answer (one of) the question I asked Dekka (following criticism but didn’t get a reply, Obviously). How do you allow ingress into large venues in a time scale, efficient and legal manor that the public would be happy to accept?
So, I would say it is either accept what is already happening, as we are being led to believe in this instance, though unsubstantiated, or we forbid all events from taking place because the logistic requirements are too cumbersome and expensive for organizers.
RE: UK Covid death toll - baggy1 - 07-07-2021
(07-07-2021, 09:05 AM)JOK Wrote:(07-07-2021, 08:34 AM)baggy1 Wrote:(07-07-2021, 08:32 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Just listening to LBC and a steward at Wembley has just said fans are simply sharing negative Covid tests amongst themselves to gain access in the ground. Apparently there is no check on ID or validity. Excellent system.
And unfortunately that is what is going to occur and it appears the government have washed their hands of this and expect bar staff, safety marshalls and shop staff to police it.
So, it’s not being ‘policed’ now; what will be the difference on the 19th? How do you police it? How do you check everyone’s ID and test results / Proof of having had the double dose of vac, quickly? Who do you say should be doing it, the police?
Please, would you answer (one of) the question I asked Dekka (following criticism but didn’t get a reply, Obviously). How do you allow ingress into large venues in a time scale, efficient and legal manor that the public would be happy to accept?
So, I would say it is either accept what is already happening, as we are being led to believe in this instance, though unsubstantiated, or we forbid all events from taking place because the logistic requirements are too cumbersome and expensive for organizers.
You seem to be missing what I'm saying, with current restrictions and rules then if needed the Police can intervene in the rare case where someone starts to play their face about restrictions (therefore it is 'Policed'). Going forward if a business chooses to have some restrictions they won't have that protection and it will be left up to the staff / owners to police. If a business wants to have some restrictions I'm just saying they should have some way of being protected.
I have no issue with venues that want to open fully, that is their choice; as it is individuals choice not to attend those venues if they deem them unsafe - I won't be going to any nightclubs soon but I will be going to the shrine when the season starts.
I do accept what is happening, I believe it is reckless and the signs are it is leading us to more restrictions in the future but hopefully I'm wrong on that.
RE: UK Covid death toll - Derek Hardballs - 07-07-2021
Here you go, the decision not to follow the science is based on illogical arguments for the economy.
Professor Reicher added: “There was an analysis of OECD countries which showed the countries which get on top of the pandemic do best in terms of public health, do best in terms of economy and do best in terms of liberties, because they've got to have restrictions for a shorter time.“
Anybody suggesting that we have got control of the virus isn’t really paying attention.
Some of you will die but that’s a risk I’m prepared to make
RE: UK Covid death toll - Protheroe - 07-07-2021
(07-07-2021, 12:48 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Professor Reicher
Is a social psychologist.
RE: UK Covid death toll - baggy1 - 07-07-2021
(07-07-2021, 01:25 PM)Protheroe Wrote:(07-07-2021, 12:48 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Professor Reicher
Is a social psychologist.
Who appears to be commenting on social behaviour in that article. Crazy, I know.
RE: UK Covid death toll - Derek Hardballs - 07-07-2021
(07-07-2021, 01:31 PM)baggy1 Wrote:(07-07-2021, 01:25 PM)Protheroe Wrote:(07-07-2021, 12:48 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Professor Reicher
Is a social psychologist.
Who appears to be commenting on social behaviour in that article. Crazy, I know.
Maybe Proth would prefer Chris Whitty decanting yesterday….
Long Covid 'not going to be trivial'
He said that over the next 12 months “a lot” of focus will be “around dealing with the next wave” and a “quite difficult winter” for the NHS. There will “almost certainly be a Covid surge, and that'll be on top of a return to a more normal respiratory surge”.
He warned that he would be "surprised" if we returned to pre-pandemic normality before next spring, and raised particular concerns around how “we will get a significant amount more long Covid, particularly in the younger ages where the vaccination rates are currently much lower”.
He warned that “we're still in the foothills of our understanding” of long Covid, and it is “still to be proven” that those who are vaccinated do not get it. He said keeping Covid rates down and making sure everyone is vaccinated were the two ways to prevent the condition, and added: "We don't know how much of an issue it’s going to be but I think we should assume it's not going to be trivial.”
Ringing endorsement of man-baby Johnson and the ERG types policy of letting it rip through through the population[font="Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]. [/font]