(07-01-2021, 03:47 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:

(07-01-2021, 03:37 PM)Ted Maul Wrote:

(07-01-2021, 03:10 PM)baggy1 Wrote: I think that the decision to reopen on the 19th needs to be made with as much info as possible. If, by the 14th July, we have had another couple of weeks of 20% increase in hospitalisations then we need to think carefully, we also need some clear data of who is in hospital. If we have 20% a week increase for 5 weeks (which it will be on the 14th) then we need to understand that removing all restrictions will, most likely, increase infections and as we know hospitalisations follow that. The 20% increases will take us to over 3k in hospital by the end of July (allowing for the two week delay before the rate increases), then let's say it moves to 30% a week as restrictions are removed, that takes us to 10K by the end of August and 30k by the end of September.

Lets not ignore the lessons learned because we think we've cracked it with vaccines. And I hope all of those figures are wrong btw.

Vaccines work or they don't, we're on the verge of 2/3 adults being double vaccinated and by the time the end of August rolls round a good chunk of the 20-29 bracket will be double-jabbed too.

What will force their hand in July is knowing that there is going to be an exit wave, it's better to have it during summer than as we head into winter.

---

(07-01-2021, 03:05 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:

(07-01-2021, 02:53 PM)Ted Maul Wrote: Kids need vaccinating but that should have no bearing on reopening society.

With the majority of over 18s jabbed at least once, we should have sufficient leeway to start dishing out booster jabs to the old and crusty and safe vaccines to kids.

Who said it should do? 

There is however a small but significant group of young people and children that are very vulnerable to the virus who were / are on the shielding list who haven't had the vaccine because they are under 12yrs of age. They need and deserve just as much as any 'old crusty' the same chance of a normal life as everybody else. They don't have that luxury and are still having to isolate. I don't think you will find one person connected to those children that wants restrictions anymore than anyone else, other than to protect their children. Until their rights to a normalish life are addressed I will always defend their rights.

All fair points, begs the question why more consideration wasn't given to this group during the initial vaccine roll out? The US have been giving Pfizer to kids, why can't we?

From the comments Johnson and Whitty made on the 14th June, it very much seems that by the 19th they feel they'll have done everything they can to protect the vast majority of people. I find it pretty hard to argue with that as well.

They have done pretty much feck all for the protection of vulnerable children under 12 other than to say shield! Whitty at least in the speech where we delayed opening did acknowledged this group of people existed! Still who cares, it doesn't seem like anyone is fighting on their behalf and as you say why it wasn't made a priority like in the US is very much open to debate.

(07-01-2021, 02:47 PM)baggy1 Wrote: Seriously JOK? I'm pretty certain I didn't say that you said any of those statements, why have you taken it as a dig at you? I'm going to break this to you so don't take it the wrong way - It's not all about you mate. 

Anyone can question a statement, but shutting it down with no supporting info is what makes social media so painful these days. Dekka made a statement and immediately 3 people called it bullshit and that was done most likely without looking into it at all (if they did then they didn't back up their views). And for info, I didn't think it was a likely scenario but as it turns out it could be - the stats I have looked at are all on the NHS website and gov.uk. 

I know of two lads (sons of some good friends and both under 18) that have contracted it, both very healthy (football and athletics to a good standard of competition) and they have both been knocked off their feet with it. I also added that we need better data to be certain of what is going on, we will have some next week when the monthly figures are released but it shouldn't be too hard for them to start putting the age ranges of those in hospital.

As much as none of want this, the data is pointing us in one direction and if we continue with views such as 'kids are alright, it doesn't impact on them so they don't need to worry' then we are blindly going in the wrong direction. The US is vaccinating kids for a reason, let's not be behind another curve by focussing on the facts we want to.

(07-02-2021, 09:29 AM)JOK Wrote:

(07-01-2021, 02:47 PM)baggy1 Wrote: Seriously JOK? I'm pretty certain I didn't say that you said any of those statements, why have you taken it as a dig at you? I'm going to break this to you so don't take it the wrong way - It's not all about you mate. 

Anyone can question a statement, but shutting it down with no supporting info is what makes social media so painful these days. Dekka made a statement and immediately 3 people called it bullshit and that was done most likely without looking into it at all (if they did then they didn't back up their views). And for info, I didn't think it was a likely scenario but as it turns out it could be - the stats I have looked at are all on the NHS website and gov.uk. 

I know of two lads (sons of some good friends and both under 18) that have contracted it, both very healthy (football and athletics to a good standard of competition) and they have both been knocked off their feet with it. I also added that we need better data to be certain of what is going on, we will have some next week when the monthly figures are released but it shouldn't be too hard for them to start putting the age ranges of those in hospital.

As much as none of want this, the data is pointing us in one direction and if we continue with views such as 'kids are alright, it doesn't impact on them so they don't need to worry' then we are blindly going in the wrong direction. The US is vaccinating kids for a reason, let's not be behind another curve by focussing on the facts we want to.

I didn't take it as a dig, just pointing out I didn't make a knee jerk reaction. I tried to research the facts.  Why the comment about "It's not all about You"? Am I not allowed to post? 
My point to you is that you, in your previous post and your last, have castigated posters for calling the original statement into question "without looking into it at all if they did they did not back it up" Yet you appear to be happy to accept the  original statement, which had no references or link, without question and certainly no censor. i.e. you can make a statement without "supporting info" in the first place but need to back up a rebuttal of said statement.  I would suggest both instances are "what makes social media so painful these days".

(07-02-2021, 09:54 AM)baggy1 Wrote: I was pointing out the over the top approach by some posters on here to Dekka's comment, your approach is fine and even without the research you did you didn't get aggressive because he had made a comment about something he'd heard. I suspect the over the top approach was because of who posted it and not what was posted, it is unnecessary and importantly we should be able to discuss any points made on this thread without resorting to the mob mentality we get on other threads.

We'll get some more data next thursday on this but there is evidence to show that under 18 infection and hospitalisation is occurring, to what extent we will find out soon enough. Again, the data that is being reported could help to qualify or dismiss any of the 'false narratives' flying about but for some reason they aren't doing so. I may have a very simplistic approach but it should be very easy to break the numbers in hospital down into age brackets.

(07-04-2021, 02:51 PM)Birdman1811 Wrote: Out of interest Derek, what's your plan. We can't keep legal businesses closed much longer at all, people don't want to keep being told who they can see, when they can see and where.

Hospitalisations and deaths are still very low, lower than a flu season by far. Vaccines have taken most of the sting from the virus out 

(07-04-2021, 04:16 PM)Birdman1811 Wrote: Certainly not against a lot of what you've said in regards to sensible precautions there.

With vaccination, covid19 is as serious as flu, fir the unvaccinated it's certainly far worse.

We do have to live with it at some point, and I've said before I'm all for vaccine passports to be honest, and giving premises the right to demand proof of vaccination.