(07-24-2023, 04:55 PM)Cuzer Wrote:

(07-24-2023, 10:32 AM)Tom Joad Wrote:

(07-23-2023, 11:31 PM)Cheshire East Baggie Wrote: Yes, there's a load of resentment that the cheating Aussies have been saved by the weather. England had them on the ropes for sure. But the two most pertinent comments came from Glenn McGrath and Michael Vaughan.

McGrath said that England needed to play with more intensity. If you go into the game too relaxed, too jovial, that's when mistakes like dropped catches and soft dismissals happen. That's how we got 2-0 down. Vaughan said that the decision to pick Anderson cost us. Yes, we understand the sentiment to give him a last Ashes chance, but he's had no impact at all in the three games he's played.

Lessons can and will be learnt from this, but the current squad is in its autumn years. Anderson and Moeen are done. Broad might have a year or two left, Stokes needs a new knee, Wood is 33, Woakes slightly older and injured again. Bairstow is a mercurial talent, never consistent. That's a lot of talent that needs replacing, maybe even before the next Ashes down under. Now was the time to rub their noses in it, and we've blown it. We can square the series up at The Oval and it will feel like a win, but a whitewash was achievable.

Yes, I certainly feel resentment. I'd say anyone that has been to Australia and witnessed their smug gloating and witless arrogance feels the same. Bitterness apart though, we definitely missed a trick here. The Ashes were actually, only lost in a few moments. Fresh off the back of beating India at the Oval, Australia were well prepared. England came in after a knockabout with Ireland. Ridiculous. From the start IMO, there were miscalculations.  The declaration in Brum, and I see why it was done on a placid pitch, put Australia on guard. Instead of the intended idea of putting pressure on them it was the reverse and resulted in them being totally focused. There is a good reason no one ever declares a first innings, with a modest score, on a flat pitch , on the first day, with the best batsman in the world still in and seeing it like a beach ball. Not taking a wicket in the four remaining overs that evening put the pressure firmly back on us.  The difference this made in runs was marginal but the mental effect was huge. Australia were galvanised. Yet the result was still close. 
Then Lords. At 188 for 1 and their spinner limping off we decide to take on the short pitched stuff, badly. Instead of wearing their bowlers out we virtually gave them a day off yet still the result, again, was close.  England were 2-0 down, not because they had been outplayed, but because they attacked when maybe it would have been  better advised to hold back. Just like Australia did on the first day in those final four overs.
The real point of this post is this. The team ethos of Baz and Ben has made for great cricket but the long term effect needs to be maintained. Hopefully we learn when to reign it in and when to go all out. This will surely come with experience.  For almost as long as I remember, our results have been underwhelming given the talent available. There has been a mental weakness that with few exceptions has prevailed. Naturally gifted players have been lauded despite regularly losing games. (Gower springs to mind immediately, sublime batsman but doesn't even stick around in the dressing room when out). As a fully paid up working class bloke with chips on both shoulders, I've blamed the entitled public schoolboys that are always selected. I still believe this.  
   Just over twelve months into the McCullum/Stokes regime there is far more to cheer than to bemoan. We need to persevere with the attacking attitude and establish opportunities for players that have the right attitude. The players that have stood out so far are those that have that attitude. There also needs to be a proper approach to the games, preparation is vital. And last but not least, can we encourage spin bowling? At my local club spinners are just part timers, it is something batsmen do to prevent them getting bored in the field. I rarely see anyone practising spin with intent.
  Well, rant over. If anyone does manage to get to the end of this, then thanks for letting me get it off my chest. I fucking hate losing to Australia.

I've done down under three times for the Ashes, also had to witness the whitewash in 2007 when we resembled a pub side so I feel your pain

Saying that when you get them over a beer they're not a bad mob the Aussies and actually want to see a tightly competitive series

This is definitely one that got away though you feel, not sure where our motivation will be for the next one, if they escape with a 3-1 it will be a travesty so you would like to think we'll be bang up for squaring the series, something which would have happened without doubt bar the beautiful English summer

Cuzer

(07-27-2023, 10:11 AM)SausEggBaton Wrote: Batting first probably not the greatest.

I can't stand this rhetoric of, "we don't want to lose the ashes but we know they've retained it" - no Ben, we've lost the ashes again, because they are taking it home again (in a manner of speaking - yes I know the original is kept here).

(07-27-2023, 10:48 AM)Cheshire East Baggie Wrote:

(07-27-2023, 10:11 AM)SausEggBaton Wrote: Batting first probably not the greatest.

I can't stand this rhetoric of, "we don't want to lose the ashes but we know they've retained it" - no Ben, we've lost the ashes again, because they are taking it home again (in a manner of speaking - yes I know the original is kept here).

From what Aggers has been saying so far, Stokes has been pretty charmless in their interviews. Refuses to engage with any discussion about how England play and how their approach has evolved. Comes across as a bit of a twat if you ask me, huge talent notwithstanding.

(07-27-2023, 10:58 AM)wba13 Wrote: I’ll never understand why we want to put players down, we’re supposed to support them. Stokes has done some things wrong but  batted brilliantly captained how he sees it, but because he doesn’t say what some want him to say he’s a twat.
Just get behind them we’ve done a lot right in this series.

(07-27-2023, 11:27 AM)Ted Maul Wrote: This could get ugly quickly if we're not careful.

Was chatting about this series at work yesterday and a colleague likened it to when a newly promoted side plays one of the PL big boys, lots of effort, endeavour and tries to play the game the right way but makes a couple of mistakes early before surging back, only to be suckered on the counter attack late on. I thought that was a pretty apt way of looking at it.

Good teams do the basics well and take their chances when they come their way, that's the difference here; not Bazball, not the weather, we missed some sitters and they didn't. The only criticism I have with this team is perhaps there too great a focus on the sublime and whether we've neglected the boring, mundane things that are the foundations of any good team in any sport. Only time will tell but this England side will be better for the experience I'm sure.

Also, some positive news to read that Jofra Archer is expected to be fit for the World Cup later this year. Having him coming back into the test side in the next 8-12 months would be a real bonus.