(01-01-2021, 03:20 PM)Tom Joad Wrote: I'm not interested in this drawing battle lines  to pitch brexiteers, libertarians and covid sceptics in one corner and the left in another. I think that's just a case of looking for something and finding something that fits. 
From my experience, the hard left was always the mainstay of anti EU sentiment. Especially in Holland and Belgium but also the UK, Tony Benn being a well known example. I understand this was a protectionist idea, against the idea of cheap, imported labour and EU rulings against large state subsidies in industry.
Further, I'm finding covid sceptics in all walks of life. Some people I've known for years and from all walks of life. Some Grammar school educated, some New Agers, one factory worker, quite a few environmentalists, those just from the top of my head. Some of these I have discussed things with, others I know better than to try any debate with. Then there are those that just ignore it mainly due to selfish reasons.
I don't mind differing opinions, it keeps the mind a lot healthier than just preaching to the converted. Just my onions.

Derek Hardballs Wrote:

Tom Joad Wrote:I'm not interested in this drawing battle lines  to pitch brexiteers, libertarians and covid sceptics in one corner and the left in another. I think that's just a case of looking for something and finding something that fits. 
From my experience, the hard left was always the mainstay of anti EU sentiment. Especially in Holland and Belgium but also the UK, Tony Benn being a well known example. I understand this was a protectionist idea, against the idea of cheap, imported labour and EU rulings against large state subsidies in industry.
Further, I'm finding covid sceptics in all walks of life. Some people I've known for years and from all walks of life. Some Grammar school educated, some New Agers, one factory worker, quite a few environmentalists, those just from the top of my head. Some of these I have discussed things with, others I know better than to try any debate with. Then there are those that just ignore it mainly due to selfish reasons.
I don't mind differing opinions, it keeps the mind a lot healthier than just preaching to the converted. Just my onions.

Imo hard left is just the flip of the coin from hard right. The country suffers when pandering to either side. It’s not a left or right thing but you can see from SM and MSM there is a correlation as there is in the US. It’s where our polarised politics is currently. 

Anyway we are discussing differing opinions but that doesn’t mean they are all equal. Some opinions on Covid are dangerous and put other people’s lives at risk. Should their opinion be put on a equal footing to someone who works in the frontline in a hospital for example?

(01-01-2021, 05:56 PM)Tom Joad Wrote:

Derek Hardballs Wrote:

Tom Joad Wrote:I'm not interested in this drawing battle lines  to pitch brexiteers, libertarians and covid sceptics in one corner and the left in another. I think that's just a case of looking for something and finding something that fits. 
From my experience, the hard left was always the mainstay of anti EU sentiment. Especially in Holland and Belgium but also the UK, Tony Benn being a well known example. I understand this was a protectionist idea, against the idea of cheap, imported labour and EU rulings against large state subsidies in industry.
Further, I'm finding covid sceptics in all walks of life. Some people I've known for years and from all walks of life. Some Grammar school educated, some New Agers, one factory worker, quite a few environmentalists, those just from the top of my head. Some of these I have discussed things with, others I know better than to try any debate with. Then there are those that just ignore it mainly due to selfish reasons.
I don't mind differing opinions, it keeps the mind a lot healthier than just preaching to the converted. Just my onions.

Imo hard left is just the flip of the coin from hard right. The country suffers when pandering to either side. It’s not a left or right thing but you can see from SM and MSM there is a correlation as there is in the US. It’s where our polarised politics is currently. 

Anyway we are discussing differing opinions but that doesn’t mean they are all equal. Some opinions on Covid are dangerous and put other people’s lives at risk. Should their opinion be put on a equal footing to someone who works in the frontline in a hospital for example?

 Agree, both extremes are dangerous.   IMO, only open discussion can flush out extremes. Also, any covering up or forced censorships will pander to the wilder of the conspiracy theories. Without going over old ground too much, the best summary of the referendum that I read was Stewart Maconie's account. Himself a remainer, he railed against the arrogance of the political elite and the accusations of remainers,( you know, "They're all thick racists on the Brexit side"). Maconie pointed out it was the vote of those that felt ignored, of those that  wanted to give London and the Home Counties a black eye. Also pointing out that he grew up and lived amongst Brexit voting areas and they are your mates, your cousins, the bloke down the pub that you always say hello to. We don't all have to agree, but we do have to live and work together.
 It is a lesson that  should not be ignored when dealing with Covid sceptics. They aren't all mad. One I regularly debate with is far from stupid, he can lose me in any argument. The classic conspiracy theory starts with a grain of truth (so I'm told). Whichever bizarre turns they take from there must be kept in clear sight. Any censorship simply feeds the beast, "you see what they're hiding from us?"

(01-02-2021, 12:50 AM)The liquidator Wrote: That in a nutshell once the elite take no notice of the man on the street this is what you get especially the oiks from London... So it was 2 fingers too the lot of them.... And this is where we are..

(01-02-2021, 12:50 AM)The liquidator Wrote: That in a nutshell once the elite take no notice of the man on the street this is what you get especially the oiks from London... So it was 2 fingers too the lot of them.... And this is where we are..

(01-02-2021, 01:32 PM)EastMidsBaggie Wrote:

(01-02-2021, 12:50 AM)The liquidator Wrote: That in a nutshell once the elite take no notice of the man on the street this is what you get especially the oiks from London... So it was 2 fingers too the lot of them.... And this is where we are..

Yet the public have just elected the Elite into government so how’s that work ?

Love to know how the likes of Rees-Mogg, Johnson, Farage, Gove or Rabb represent the interests of the man of the street !
How do the elite offshore billionaire owners of the Mail, Sun, Telegraph and Express represent folk in Hull, Stoke or Sunderland ?
It’s successive governments and the finance obsessed policies that have harmed the man on the street.

(01-02-2021, 02:12 PM)hudds Wrote:

(01-02-2021, 12:50 AM)The liquidator Wrote: That in a nutshell once the elite take no notice of the man on the street this is what you get especially the oiks from London... So it was 2 fingers too the lot of them.... And this is where we are..

Elite oiks?  Shurely shum mishtake

(12-16-2020, 08:25 PM)baggy1 Wrote: Taking the figures and updating them with this weeks figures from the govt slides today
16th Sept - 929
23rd Sept - 1,439 (1.55 x previous week)
30th Sept - 2,036 (1.41 x pw)
7th Oct - 3,066 (1.51 x pw)
14th Oct - 4,313 (1.41 x pw)
21st Oct - 6,271 (1.45 x pw)
28th Oct - 9,070 (1.45 x pw)
4th Nov - 11,037 (1.22 x pw)
11th Nov - 12,730 (1.15 x pw)
18th Nov - 14,490 (1.14 x pw)
25th Nov - 14,240 (0.98 x pw)
2nd Dec - 13,212 (0.93 x pw)
9th Dec -  13,467 (1.02 x pw)
16th Dec - 15,465 (1.15 x pw)
23rd Dec - 17,834 (1.15 x pw)
30th Dec - 22,713 (1.27 x pw)

(01-04-2021, 09:19 AM)baggy1 Wrote:

(12-16-2020, 08:25 PM)baggy1 Wrote: Taking the figures and updating them with this weeks figures from the govt slides today
16th Sept - 929
23rd Sept - 1,439 (1.55 x previous week)
30th Sept - 2,036 (1.41 x pw)
7th Oct - 3,066 (1.51 x pw)
14th Oct - 4,313 (1.41 x pw)
21st Oct - 6,271 (1.45 x pw)
28th Oct - 9,070 (1.45 x pw)
4th Nov - 11,037 (1.22 x pw)
11th Nov - 12,730 (1.15 x pw)
18th Nov - 14,490 (1.14 x pw)
25th Nov - 14,240 (0.98 x pw)
2nd Dec - 13,212 (0.93 x pw)
9th Dec -  13,467 (1.02 x pw)
16th Dec - 15,465 (1.15 x pw)
23rd Dec - 17,834 (1.15 x pw)
30th Dec - 22,713 (1.27 x pw)

Happy New Year and FFS we appear to have stacked it properly. We're now at a point where we have about 7 times the numbers in hospitals to when we locked down in March and we're still debating whether or not to send the little cherubs back into their petri dishes. Although the new variant of the virus is about it has only seen a noted increase in the last week of the year for hospitalisation growth.

We have the vaccine ready to be rolled out so as painful as it would be it seems the logical step to close down for a month to get the numbers down. 

The deaths are also still above the 5YA and the worst week on record for the last decade so as much as some are saying it's normal at this time of year, this is above even the worst death figures for equivalent weeks. We are about to go into January when the figures are normally high, average is around 12 or 13k but we have seen 15 or 16k recently so don't be surprised to see those figures again. If we get to above 16k a week then that is unusual.

If you can stay away from everything for the next month the my advice is do so.