11-13-2019, 12:22 PM
11-13-2019, 12:36 PM
11-13-2019, 12:38 PM
The FA need to sort this out. It’s illegal for a club to sign a player on a professional contract until he is 17, so it is impossible for us to protect against our Academy players being poached. We can never stop the mega clubs cherry picking the top youngsters, and that will never change as its the law of the jungle and we know our place, but there has to be a proper compensation system in place. Without it, having an Academy is pointless as we are just doing the job of the mega clubs for them without being rewarded for it.
11-13-2019, 12:56 PM
(11-13-2019, 12:38 PM)Pragmatist Wrote: [ -> ]The FA need to sort this out. It’s illegal for a club to sign a player on a professional contract until he is 17, so it is impossible for us to protect against our Academy players being poached. We can never stop the mega clubs cherry picking the top youngsters, and that will never change as its the law of the jungle and we know our place, but there has to be a proper compensation system in place. Without it, having an Academy is pointless as we are just doing the job of the mega clubs for them without being rewarded for it.
Why would the FA sort this out? They only care about the clubs that abuse the system, every other club can piss off for all they care.
11-13-2019, 01:31 PM
It'll be nigh on impossible to do owt about the 'tapping up' that goes on. Players only have to turn down contracts now and clubs are fucked.
11-13-2019, 01:32 PM
Don't we get £4m for Barrie(?) if he's a success?
If that's the case (and I accept it might not be), it seems pretty reasonable. I can't imagine the academy staff on big money, so surely that covers a whole year and then some? We then have the rest of the crop to make something out of - for free.
I had a look at some of the other academy poachee's who we got upset about. I couldn't find one that's been a runaway success. Probably Chris Wood - and that's stretching the definitions of 'academy graduate' and 'poached'! For all the panic of harper leaving on a free, how much is he actually worth to the club? Obviously not much to the playing squad...
What we really should be concentrating on is a route to our first team. If we get them to play there, not only will less leave, they will also be worth more with first team appearances under their belts.
...isn't that really the point of the academy, anyway?
Regardless, I don't think the issue is of youngsters leaving, it's more that none have actually been successful - with us or anyone else. That what we should be getting pissed off about.
If that's the case (and I accept it might not be), it seems pretty reasonable. I can't imagine the academy staff on big money, so surely that covers a whole year and then some? We then have the rest of the crop to make something out of - for free.
I had a look at some of the other academy poachee's who we got upset about. I couldn't find one that's been a runaway success. Probably Chris Wood - and that's stretching the definitions of 'academy graduate' and 'poached'! For all the panic of harper leaving on a free, how much is he actually worth to the club? Obviously not much to the playing squad...
What we really should be concentrating on is a route to our first team. If we get them to play there, not only will less leave, they will also be worth more with first team appearances under their belts.
...isn't that really the point of the academy, anyway?
Regardless, I don't think the issue is of youngsters leaving, it's more that none have actually been successful - with us or anyone else. That what we should be getting pissed off about.
11-13-2019, 02:05 PM
(11-13-2019, 01:32 PM)fuzzbox Wrote: [ -> ]Don't we get £4m for Barrie(?) if he's a success?
If that's the case (and I accept it might not be), it seems pretty reasonable. I can't imagine the academy staff on big money, so surely that covers a whole year and then some? We then have the rest of the crop to make something out of - for free.
I had a look at some of the other academy poachee's who we got upset about. I couldn't find one that's been a runaway success. Probably Chris Wood - and that's stretching the definitions of 'academy graduate' and 'poached'! For all the panic of harper leaving on a free, how much is he actually worth to the club? Obviously not much to the playing squad...
What we really should be concentrating on is a route to our first team. If we get them to play there, not only will less leave, they will also be worth more with first team appearances under their belts.
...isn't that really the point of the academy, anyway?
Regardless, I don't think the issue is of youngsters leaving, it's more that none have actually been successful - with us or anyone else. That what we should be getting pissed off about.
'Don't we get £4m for Barrie(?) if he's a success?'
No. £235,000 and that's because he wasn't under contract.
You may be thinking of Rogers who was contractually tied. We've reportedly had 4m for him and will reportedly get another 4m if he meets whatever conditions were agreed as part of the deal, appearances etc...
11-13-2019, 02:17 PM
(11-13-2019, 01:31 PM)Baggiejacko Wrote: [ -> ]It'll be nigh on impossible to do owt about the 'tapping up' that goes on. Players only have to turn down contracts now and clubs are fucked.
Correct - we can’t stop the tapping up, but the compensation arrangements need to be a lot fairer.
(11-13-2019, 02:05 PM)Hopalong Wrote: [ -> ](11-13-2019, 01:32 PM)fuzzbox Wrote: [ -> ]Don't we get £4m for Barrie(?) if he's a success?
If that's the case (and I accept it might not be), it seems pretty reasonable. I can't imagine the academy staff on big money, so surely that covers a whole year and then some? We then have the rest of the crop to make something out of - for free.
I had a look at some of the other academy poachee's who we got upset about. I couldn't find one that's been a runaway success. Probably Chris Wood - and that's stretching the definitions of 'academy graduate' and 'poached'! For all the panic of harper leaving on a free, how much is he actually worth to the club? Obviously not much to the playing squad...
What we really should be concentrating on is a route to our first team. If we get them to play there, not only will less leave, they will also be worth more with first team appearances under their belts.
...isn't that really the point of the academy, anyway?
Regardless, I don't think the issue is of youngsters leaving, it's more that none have actually been successful - with us or anyone else. That what we should be getting pissed off about.
'Don't we get £4m for Barrie(?) if he's a success?'
No. £235,000 and that's because he wasn't under contract.
You may be thinking of Rogers who was contractually tied. We've reportedly had 4m for him and will reportedly get another 4m if he meets whatever conditions were agreed as part of the deal, appearances etc...
That’s correct. Barry was under contract and went to a non-English club who only have to pay nominal compensation. The Rogers deal with City was fine, but only possible as he moved to an English club. If the player is not under contract because he’s too young to sign a professional contract, ie not yet 17, then we are screwed. The system is woefully deficient and must be addressed.
11-13-2019, 03:06 PM
(11-13-2019, 01:32 PM)fuzzbox Wrote: [ -> ]Don't we get £4m for Barrie(?) if he's a success?
If that's the case (and I accept it might not be), it seems pretty reasonable. I can't imagine the academy staff on big money, so surely that covers a whole year and then some? We then have the rest of the crop to make something out of - for free.
I had a look at some of the other academy poachee's who we got upset about. I couldn't find one that's been a runaway success. Probably Chris Wood - and that's stretching the definitions of 'academy graduate' and 'poached'! For all the panic of harper leaving on a free, how much is he actually worth to the club? Obviously not much to the playing squad...
What we really should be concentrating on is a route to our first team. If we get them to play there, not only will less leave, they will also be worth more with first team appearances under their belts.
...isn't that really the point of the academy, anyway?
Regardless, I don't think the issue is of youngsters leaving, it's more that none have actually been successful - with us or anyone else. That what we should be getting pissed off about.
There's the principle. In a world where the 'haves' repeatedly riding roughshod over the 'have nots' with increasing cynicism, we are right to protest our powerlessness.
RE the relative success of the players were have lost: It's alright saying in hindsight they haven't found success at these clubs, but who's to say they wouldn't have here?
You're right about the first team route, but it's going to be difficult if the best are stolen off us and we're left with the also rans.
11-13-2019, 04:08 PM
The biggest change that’s needed is that category 1 academies shouldn’t be able to poach the best talent from other Cat1 academies.
The whole academy set up was designed to give the best talent access to the best coaches and facilities, however at the last minute the rules were changed to allow cat 1 to poach from other cat 1 academies utterly defeating the point and allowing the best clubs to stockpile.
Academies’ ratings should be based on a combination of facilities and track record of players getting access to the first team - be it minutes/games played or something else, and not just time on loan.
The whole academy set up was designed to give the best talent access to the best coaches and facilities, however at the last minute the rules were changed to allow cat 1 to poach from other cat 1 academies utterly defeating the point and allowing the best clubs to stockpile.
Academies’ ratings should be based on a combination of facilities and track record of players getting access to the first team - be it minutes/games played or something else, and not just time on loan.