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Chadli
#21
(10-11-2017, 01:17 PM)Votebaggie Wrote: When Chadli joined he will have known exactly how Pulis' teams plays football, the one thing about our Tone is there is no surprises.  He just can't be saying "well I never knew you would want me to track back and defend" because TP has no plan B it's been the same for the last 20 years.   It would be like buying a house and then saying "fuck me where did that motorway at the bottom of my garden come from"
The most important contract you have at work is the contract you have with hour boss and like it or lump it is on Chadli to do want Pulis asks him to do and not the other way round.

Is the right answer. Of course everyone wants to see talented, exciting players in the team but if they're not willing to put in 100% wherever they play they can expect not to start.
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#22
They count towards TP's shite results in the same way that it's fair to say Chadli has scored 1 and assisted 1 in his last 27 games, rather than saying he scored 5 and assisted 5 over the whole of last season.

You can't have it both ways. Either quote that we finished 10th and Chadli was our second most productive attacking force or quote our most recently results to exclude our decent run and highlight that Chadli basically did nothing post October last year.

(10-11-2017, 01:15 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Perhaps the difference is I can write a balanced argument but where's the fun in that?  Wink IMO Slice is the most sensible poster on here  Heart I just get bored and throw a few hand grenades in.

I appreciate the kind words, but I think most would disagree with you (for a change) Big Grin
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#23
I think people are falling into the trap of conflating 'putting the effort in' with running round like a lunatic. When players like Chadli - more languid players - are out of sorts then it'll look like they can't be arsed. It's the sort of crap people used to throw around about Brunt for his 'poor body language.'
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#24
(10-11-2017, 01:22 PM)Malcolm Tucker Wrote: I think people are falling into the trap of conflating 'putting the effort in' with running round like a lunatic. When players like Chadli - more languid players - are out of sorts then it'll look like they can't be arsed. It's the sort of crap people used to throw around about Brunt for his 'poor body language.'

It's not the case. You can look in every position and identify players that were at least looking interested with no output during our bad patch. We're not defining those "not putting effort in" as anyone who's not McClean.
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#25
(10-11-2017, 01:22 PM)Malcolm Tucker Wrote: I think people are falling into the trap of conflating 'putting the effort in' with running round like a lunatic. When players like Chadli - more languid players - are out of sorts then it'll look like they can't be arsed. It's the sort of crap people used to throw around about Brunt for his 'poor body language.'

It's not because Brunt doesn't hide where as I saw very little from Chadli that looked like he wanted to make anything happen after his injury. I think some are falling into the Emperors New Clothes trap of suggesting we don't understand a player of that talent. Or bending over backwards to make excuses for him.
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#26
(10-11-2017, 01:22 PM)Malcolm Tucker Wrote: I think people are falling into the trap of conflating 'putting the effort in' with running round like a lunatic. When players like Chadli - more languid players - are out of sorts then it'll look like they can't be arsed. It's the sort of crap people used to throw around about Brunt for his 'poor body language.'

You make a fair point as that did happen to Brunt and, as always, it's not black or white. But there are certain posters on here who value "latent" talent as higher than any other attribute, regardless of how they actually play or the effort they put in. No prizes for guessing who I might be referring to  Big Grin
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#27
(10-11-2017, 01:22 PM)Malcolm Tucker Wrote: I think people are falling into the trap of conflating 'putting the effort in' with running round like a lunatic. When players like Chadli - more languid players - are out of sorts then it'll look like they can't be arsed. It's the sort of crap people used to throw around about Brunt for his 'poor body language.'

Think we'd all agree with that and in particular TP would agree with that, it's why he maintained faith in Brunt despite all the abuse Brunt was picking up from wankers in the stands.   My guess is that Pulis wants to win games and when he reckons Chadli offers him the best chance of winning a game Chadli will play.
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#28
(10-11-2017, 01:28 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(10-11-2017, 01:22 PM)Malcolm Tucker Wrote: I think people are falling into the trap of conflating 'putting the effort in' with running round like a lunatic. When players like Chadli - more languid players - are out of sorts then it'll look like they can't be arsed. It's the sort of crap people used to throw around about Brunt for his 'poor body language.'

It's not because Brunt doesn't hide where as I saw very little from Chadli that looked like he wanted to make anything happen after his injury. I think some are falling into the Emperors New Clothes trap of suggesting we don't understand a player of that talent. Or bending over backwards to make excuses for him.

I'm talking about the shit Brunt used to get years ago, before everyone saw sense, not the last few years. 

Clearly Chadli wasn't anywhere near his best for the majority of last season, and showed an almost petulant attitude to games at times last season, but people carry on as though he stood with his hands on his hips for 6 months. 

He looked to me like a player struggling to adapt to a new role a lot of the time. He seemed more concerned with where he was standing than how he was actually affecting the game. It's the sameness problem that Odemwingie had during that poor spell under Roy before the 5-1 at Wolves. 

Chadli obviously needs to improve this season but he also needs to be given the chance to flourish, rather than spending too much time worrying about covering the full back. If he's given that chance and still looks complete shit then you won't find me making excuses for him.
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#29
Fair points
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#30
(10-11-2017, 01:37 PM)Malcolm Tucker Wrote:
(10-11-2017, 01:28 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(10-11-2017, 01:22 PM)Malcolm Tucker Wrote: I think people are falling into the trap of conflating 'putting the effort in' with running round like a lunatic. When players like Chadli - more languid players - are out of sorts then it'll look like they can't be arsed. It's the sort of crap people used to throw around about Brunt for his 'poor body language.'

It's not because Brunt doesn't hide where as I saw very little from Chadli that looked like he wanted to make anything happen after his injury. I think some are falling into the Emperors New Clothes trap of suggesting we don't understand a player of that talent. Or bending over backwards to make excuses for him.

I'm talking about the shit Brunt used to get years ago, before everyone saw sense, not the last few years. 

Clearly Chadli wasn't anywhere near his best for the majority of last season, and showed an almost petulant attitude to games at times last season, but people carry on as though he stood with his hands on his hips for 6 months. 

He looked to me like a player struggling to adapt to a new role a lot of the time. He seemed more concerned with where he was standing than how he was actually affecting the game. It's the sameness problem that Odemwingie had during that poor spell under Roy before the 5-1 at Wolves. 

Chadli obviously needs to improve this season but he also needs to be given the chance to flourish, rather than spending too much time worrying about covering the full back. If he's given that chance and still looks complete shit then you won't find me making excuses for him.

Good post MT  Cool and no I'm not being sarky.
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