Polands complete overreaction to the Coronavirus
#41
(03-14-2020, 12:04 PM)HeathAyIt Wrote: Friday: No ban on mass gatherings

Population: Cancel events

Saturday: Titanic u-turn

Why? A govt more concerned with economics. A Chief Medical adviser who thinks everything he has seen in a lab will translate perfectly into a chaotic postmodern society based on individualism.

Theyll end up following rather than leading on schools as well, when they inevitably cant function as staff and/or students have the virus here there and everywhere.
I don’t understand the Saturday: Titanic u turn comment. Just had a quick squiz at leading news outlets and can find no change in government advice since Friday Lunchtime. Have they now banned all public events?
I sure Prof. Witty isn’t just sitting in his lab in a white coat peering down a microscope at the contents of a Petrie dish. From what he has been saying, and also the Chief Scientific Officer, I understand that he is collating streams of information from all over the world in real time and making considered evaluations.
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#42
For what it’s worth I think the govt are delaying the closure of schools by a week and then extending the Easter holidays. This way it reduces the impact on parents taking time off. If the schools close the problem will be that the kids will just congregate anyway.

There isn’t a right or wrong way of dealing with this because of the way the country is structured. CLose everything down for too long and the economy and therefore long term health of the population suffers, close it down for not long enough and the short term health of the population suffers. A real no win situation.
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#43
(03-14-2020, 12:25 PM)JOK Wrote:
(03-14-2020, 12:04 PM)HeathAyIt Wrote: Friday: No ban on mass gatherings

Population: Cancel events

Saturday: Titanic u-turn

Why? A govt more concerned with economics. A Chief Medical adviser who thinks everything he has seen in a lab will translate perfectly into a chaotic postmodern society based on individualism.

Theyll end up following rather than leading on schools as well, when they inevitably cant function as staff and/or students have the virus here there and everywhere.
I don’t understand the Saturday: Titanic u turn comment. Just had a quick squiz at leading news outlets and can find no change in government advice since Friday Lunchtime. Have they now banned all public events?
I sure Prof. Witty isn’t just sitting in his lab in a white coat peering down a microscope at the contents of a Petrie dish. From what he has been saying, and also the Chief Scientific Officer, I understand that he is collating streams of information from all over the world in real time and making considered evaluations.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...-turn.html
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#44
(03-14-2020, 12:25 PM)JOK Wrote:
(03-14-2020, 12:04 PM)HeathAyIt Wrote: Friday: No ban on mass gatherings

Population: Cancel events

Saturday: Titanic u-turn

Why? A govt more concerned with economics. A Chief Medical adviser who thinks everything he has seen in a lab will translate perfectly into a chaotic postmodern society based on individualism.

Theyll end up following rather than leading on schools as well, when they inevitably cant function as staff and/or students have the virus here there and everywhere.
I don’t understand the Saturday: Titanic u turn comment. Just had a quick squiz at leading news outlets and can find no change in government advice since Friday Lunchtime. Have they now banned all public events?
I sure Prof. Witty isn’t just sitting in his lab in a white coat peering down a microscope at the contents of a Petrie dish. From what he has been saying, and also the Chief Scientific Officer, I understand that he is collating streams of information from all over the world in real time and making considered evaluations.

My point wasn't that he isnt working hard on a solution, but that he is misreading the probability of the population of a post structural population behaving as he expects.
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#45
Canned to the echo chamber before Derek mentions Brexit being the cause of coronavirus.
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#46
(03-14-2020, 01:24 PM)HeathAyIt Wrote:
(03-14-2020, 12:25 PM)JOK Wrote:
(03-14-2020, 12:04 PM)HeathAyIt Wrote: Friday: No ban on mass gatherings

Population: Cancel events

Saturday: Titanic u-turn

Why? A govt more concerned with economics. A Chief Medical adviser who thinks everything he has seen in a lab will translate perfectly into a chaotic postmodern society based on individualism.

Theyll end up following rather than leading on schools as well, when they inevitably cant function as staff and/or students have the virus here there and everywhere.
I don’t understand the Saturday: Titanic u turn comment. Just had a quick squiz at leading news outlets and can find no change in government advice since Friday Lunchtime. Have they now banned all public events?
I sure Prof. Witty isn’t just sitting in his lab in a white coat peering down a microscope at the contents of a Petrie dish. From what he has been saying, and also the Chief Scientific Officer, I understand that he is collating streams of information from all over the world in real time and making considered evaluations.

My point wasn't that he isnt working hard on a solution, but that he is misreading the probability of the population of a post structural population behaving as he expects.

You may be right and know better than him, but as he is an 'expert' we are told, and a UK based expert, maybe he is in a good position to judge what the UK'S best response will be, rather than copying a model from elsewhere that may not be the best fit for here. 

If you are advocating sacking or ignoring this expert as BoJos best response, who should he be taking advice from next (other than this board of course)?
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#47
(03-14-2020, 11:52 AM)JOK Wrote:
(03-14-2020, 09:58 AM)HeathAyIt Wrote:
(03-13-2020, 09:38 PM)Swagbaggie Wrote:
(03-13-2020, 09:10 PM)HeathAyIt Wrote:
(03-10-2020, 07:55 PM)JOK Wrote: When you say dithering, do you mean following the advice of the Chief Medical Officer and The Chief Scientific Officer. Careful, there are one or two on here who believe religiously in experts.

Have you got enough toilet rolls by the way?
Well theres a few on here looking like a bit of a twat aint there

More than a few. The 'Oh they are all Snowflakes brigade'  were always talking shit and now look the fucking idiots most of us knew they were.
There never was a need to panic - there still isn't - but the recklessly stupid posts by some will come back to haunt them.
Exactly right. The usual suspects whose egos will mean they still wont have the capacity to process the reality of it all.

So, do we listen to the experts and act on their considered advice or ignore them and plough in any old how? If the later, why bother consulting those with more of a handle on things?

(03-14-2020, 08:34 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(03-13-2020, 10:15 PM)Pickle Rick Wrote:
(03-13-2020, 09:57 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: If the government have this wrong and think they can hide behind the experts it will spectacularly backfire in my opinion.

The government are taking advice from experts which I think is what most would prefer.
No one wants the advice to be wrong least of all me who has very personal reasons for wanting our experts to be right. I have some sympathy with those dealing politically with the predicament we are in as a country and wouldn’t want to be calling the shots on this. The trouble is almost every other countries experts are acting in a different manner to us so questions will be asked if they prove to be incorrect. The wish to be in power comes with great responsibilities and as much as you should defer to the experts you also have to be ultimately responsible as a government.
You are ‘Running with the foxes and jumping with the hounds’ still. Which should it be Dekka, listen to experts and act on their informed advice or disregard it?  You contradict yourself in one sentence. For someone who constantly bleats on about the government NOT listening to experts you seem a bit wishy washy on this topic. I suspect you are leaving yourself an opening to berate the government whatever the outcome.
Please just say; the government should follow expert opinions or the government should take far more extreme measures than the experts suggest is required at any given time.

I can’t give the answer as I’m not an expert. My observation is the rest of world are handling the situation differently. The stark contrast could mean the Government will be heaped with praise or it could mean they will be seen to have not handled the situation well. As Heath said there are other experts it’s down to those in charge to show good decision making with regards to who they listen to. If and I flipping hope our approach is best they will be praised and rightly so.
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#48
(03-14-2020, 01:39 PM)albion_pigeon Wrote: Canned to the echo chamber before Derek mentions Brexit being the cause of coronavirus.

The echo chamber where people disagree?
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#49
I am no expert in any of this.

But given that so far the UK Govt appears to be adopting a different approach to this problem than other countries it's not unreasonable for the general public to ask why.

One thing that does intrigue me is how Chinal appears to have got the problem under control, without having to resort to a her immunity solution, which can only work if a significant number of the population gets the virus.

(03-14-2020, 03:36 PM)Borin\ Baggie Wrote:
(03-14-2020, 03:20 PM)Shabby Russian Wrote: I am no expert in any of this.

But given that so far the UK Govt appears to be adopting a different approach to this problem than other countries it's not unreasonable for the general public to ask why.

One thing that does intrigue me is how Chinal appears to have got the problem under control, without having to resort to a her immunity solution, which can only work if a significant number of the population gets the virus.

The government have explained why they're reacting differently:

1. They're trying to delay the peak cases and flatten it as much as possible as the NHS and private healthcare in this country can't cope with the potential volumes unless they're spread out over time. To put it into perspective, the UK has fewer intensive care beds than Italy, Spain, South Korea, Germany and Japan so has a lower capacity to cope with a mass breakout even in confined areas.

2. They're extremely worried about the economic knock on effects. Estimates suggest that closing schools for an extended period could cut GDP by 3% purely because parents won't be able to work as grandparents looking after young children is out of the question.

3. There is no way the British population would stand for what China have done.

We can't do what other countries are doing due to our healthcare system being woefully inadequate owing to its evolution from a preventative structure to a reactive structure over the last 25 years, and we are extremely worried about any potential economic hits.

Our approach is seems more than measured and adequate for what we're trying to do and our approach to testing is currently in line with what Italy did at the same stage, and we have different priorities to management than other countries. You also have to factor in that NI is in conversation with Dublin and is following a lot of their procedures. South Korea is an outlier as they had that cult thing, if that were to happen here then our approach would radically shift due to the enhanced risk. All mainstream sport has been suspended, laws are being introduced to give extra police powers and testing procedure has evolved in line with the increase. 

The UK approach isn't perfect and aspects have been deservedly criticised, predominantly on the medical side of things, but it is still measured and thorough. The only objectively bad response to this has been from those idiots in Washington DC and I would seriously be considering issuing a travel ban to and from the US very soon.

Like I say I am no expert and I am more curious than concerned on these issues.

You are right about hospital bed provision, if the virus takes off as it did in Italy there simply will not be enough hospital beds to treat all patients requiring hospital provision.Doctors will be put in an appalling position of having to decide who they treat and who they send home.

On schools I think it is only a matter of time before schools are closed. The news coming out of NI suggests this, I cannot see NI acting alone on this - what was surprising was the length of time they think they will be closed for.
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#50
(03-14-2020, 03:20 PM)Shabby Russian Wrote: I am no expert in any of this.

But given that so far the UK Govt appears to be adopting a different approach to this problem than other countries it's not unreasonable for the general public to ask why.

One thing that does intrigue me is how Chinal appears to have got the problem under control, without having to resort to a her immunity solution, which can only work if a significant number of the population gets the virus.

The government have explained why they're reacting differently:

1. They're trying to delay the peak cases and flatten it as much as possible as the NHS and private healthcare in this country can't cope with the potential volumes unless they're spread out over time. To put it into perspective, the UK has fewer intensive care beds than Italy, Spain, South Korea, Germany and Japan so has a lower capacity to cope with a mass breakout even in confined areas.

2. They're extremely worried about the economic knock on effects. Estimates suggest that closing schools for an extended period could cut GDP by 3% purely because parents won't be able to work as grandparents looking after young children is out of the question.

3. There is no way the British population would stand for what China have done.

We can't do what other countries are doing due to our healthcare system being woefully inadequate owing to its evolution from a preventative structure to a reactive structure over the last 25 years, and we are extremely worried about any potential economic hits.

Our approach is seems more than measured and adequate for what we're trying to do and our approach to testing is currently in line with what Italy did at the same stage, and we have different priorities to management than other countries. You also have to factor in that NI is in conversation with Dublin and is following a lot of their procedures. South Korea is an outlier as they had that cult thing, if that were to happen here then our approach would radically shift due to the enhanced risk. All mainstream sport has been suspended, laws are being introduced to give extra police powers and testing procedure has evolved in line with the increase. 

The UK approach isn't perfect and aspects have been deservedly criticised, predominantly on the medical side of things, but it is still measured and thorough. The only objectively bad response to this has been from those idiots in Washington DC and I would seriously be considering issuing a travel ban to and from the US very soon.
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