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Low Wage Growth + Wealth Inequality = Corbyn Surge
#21
Truly Heath, of the five characteristics you cite I don't agree he displays any of them. Nor do most pre-2015 Labour members I know, and I know many.

It appears more and more each day to be a bit of a cult to me. He's learned well from Trump.

Remind me about his integrity & honesty over the single biggest issue facing this country?

I confess to chuckling when the "ideological" point is made. Since Dear Margaret the Tories haven't had an idelogical backbone. The running theme through Corbyn's entire political career is his rigid ideology. He's never changed his mind about anything. He's still fighting battles from the 1970s.

You're half right about him making the party genuinely inclusive, he's managed to round up more extremists and anti-semites in two years than UKIP managed in two decades which is an acheivement of sorts. Though I'm not sure those of Jewish descent or moderate female MPs would agree whether inclusivity is a 100% positive thing.

As the Manifesto, if I promised the Earth to people without them needing to work for it and me knowing I was highly unlikely eaver to have to stand behind it then yes I'd expect some sort of engagement from the terminally naive. It would also have helped if the Tories had produced a costed manifesto of their own and took Corbyn to task over his, plainly, ridiculous promises. They didn't, and the rest is history.

And buying a copy of the Sun is not the same as taking £20,000 from the Ayatollah. It really really isn't.
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#22
"It's a damning indictment on the Tories (and New Labour) that they have allowed the under 40s to feel as though they don't have a stake. I hear that loud and clear now."

Yes Proth

I have blamed Blair and New Labour. They should have built cheap houses and given people proper jobs. It's not in the Tories nature to do such things for working people or the young. So I don't blame the Tories.

Successive governments have also shafted the young whilst stuffing the pockets of the  baby boomers. And of course the most selfish generation ever didn't resist!

Whenever I make this point on here the lunatic element accuse me of despising the British. 
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#23
I happen to agree with you. The lunatic thing, and this is really lunatic - is that the Baby Boomer generation would have built all the houses the country ever needs if the government had allowed Housing Associations to sell retail bonds. Think of it, a low risk investment in bricks & mortar paying a coupon of 3-4% - great for stuffing into a SIPP or an ISA. Markets are all about mutual self interest, it's how they work - there would be no downside. The young get affordable housing managed by HAs, the elderly get fixed interest on low risk capital.

In the words of Errol Brown "Everyone's a Winner". So why doesn't it happen?
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#24
(07-11-2017, 03:33 PM)Protheroe Wrote: You're half right about him making the party genuinely inclusive, he's managed to round up more extremists and anti-semites in two years than UKIP managed in two decades which is an acheivement of sorts. Though I'm not sure those of Jewish descent or moderate female MPs would agree whether inclusivity is a 100% positive thing.

You see, it's your bizarre obsession with myths like this that paint quite a picture. I know you liver under the illusion that Israel is the leader of the free world but even you know that when people highlight a few truths it doesnt make them anti-semitic. And even if you insist on festering in that belief, the reality is it is a micro component of a much bigger picture where the party has become far far better than at any time in history in utilising the skills and views of members and becoming a truly active party. The fact that you have to relate that back to Judaism is just pretty odd.

It's a bit like me obsessing that the odd racist you in your party is some kind of key representative focus of the entire membership. When clearly it isnt.
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#25
(07-11-2017, 08:55 PM)Heath Wrote:
(07-11-2017, 03:33 PM)Protheroe Wrote: You're half right about him making the party genuinely inclusive, he's managed to round up more extremists and anti-semites in two years than UKIP managed in two decades which is an acheivement of sorts. Though I'm not sure those of Jewish descent or moderate female MPs would agree whether inclusivity is a 100% positive thing.

You see, it's your bizarre obsession with myths like this that paint quite a picture. I know you liver under the illusion that Israel is the leader of the free world but even you know that when people highlight a few truths it doesnt make them anti-semitic. And even if you insist on festering in that belief, the reality is it is a micro component of a much bigger picture where the party has become far far better than at any time in history in utilising the skills and views of members and becoming a truly active party. The fact that you have to relate that back to Judaism is just pretty odd.

It's a bit like me obsessing that the odd racist you in your party is some kind of key representative focus of the entire membership. When clearly it isnt.

Heath the likes of Momentum are an accident waiting to happen and just because people had little alternative but Labour if you didn't want a Tory government. Doesn't mean he's suddenly become particularly more appealing than May.
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#26
He clearly has become more appealing than May, though lets be fair, that is more her doing than his. A traffic cone would probably have more appeal.

I think he has plenty of flaws - the point I am making is he also clealry had some strengths and when intelligent people are too one-eyed to see it or claim it all purely down to fantasy policies, it just debases the validity they may otherwise have. Arrogance is exactly what has lesd us to where we are. It wont lead us out.
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#27
(07-11-2017, 09:30 PM)Heath Wrote: He clearly has become more appealing than May, though lets be fair, that is more her doing than his. A traffic cone would probably have more appeal.

I think he has plenty of flaws - the point I am making is he also clealry had some strengths and when intelligent people are too one-eyed to see it or claim it all purely down to fantasy policies, it just debases the validity they may otherwise have. Arrogance is exactly what has lesd us to where we are. It wont lead us out.

Neither will sidelining moderates / centerists within the Labour Party. I can't vote again for a party with the likes of Momentum pulling the strings. I voted to stop a Tory landslide sadly neither parties are appealing.
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#28
#LeastWorst, as the old mantra goes.

Fair enough- as a pure numbers game, the more you placate the 'centre' (subjective term) the more you alienate some other voters. Personally I think if they got Rayner and Lewis into more prominent positions they would probably have a broader appeal. The great thing is, it is a party where more than an inner circle get to make these decisions. If you dont like that - thats democracy and thats up to you.
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#29
(07-11-2017, 08:55 PM)Heath Wrote: It's a bit like me obsessing that the odd racist you in your party is some kind of key representative focus of the entire membership. When clearly it isnt.

Heath, mate honestly if you don't think an *ACTIVE* caucaus in the Labour party is vehemently anti semitic then I'm afraid you're deluded. I wouldn't suggest for a moment that it is the majority of members, but it's a large number of activists - particularly where the Client Vote laps it up. It will get uglier with the Councillor deselection likely to occur in places like inner Birmingham.

As for more general racism, my late father used to tell me stories about the activities of the TGWU at Longbridge that would make your toes curl.

Every political party has it's issues, Tories included. I don't know whether I mentioned it at the time, but I gave Bromsgrove UKIP the heave-ho when I ran Vote Leave in these parts last year - some of them (by no means all) of the most unreconstructed racists I've ever had the misfortune to meet.
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#30
(07-11-2017, 09:51 PM)Protheroe Wrote:
(07-11-2017, 08:55 PM)Heath Wrote: It's a bit like me obsessing that the odd racist you in your party is some kind of key representative focus of the entire membership. When clearly it isnt.

Heath, mate honestly if you don't think an *ACTIVE* caucaus in the Labour party is vehemently anti semitic then I'm afraid you're deluded. I wouldn't suggest for a moment that it is the majority of members, but it's a large number of activists - particularly where the Client Vote laps it up. It will get uglier with the Councillor deselection likely to occur in places like inner Birmingham.

As for more general racism, my late father used to tell me stories about the activities of the TGWU at Longbridge that would make your toes curl.

Every political party has it's issues, Tories included. I don't know whether I mentioned it at the time, but I gave Bromsgrove UKIP the heave-ho when I ran Vote Leave in these parts last year - some of them (by no means all) of the most unreconstructed racists I've ever had the misfortune to meet.
Fair enough mon. I just think it is time for more energy to be ploughed into moving forward in politics. You can look for idiots, hangers on and all other manner of negative influences in all areas of life, im not sure it achieves much and the election showed that people have grown tired of nothing else of merit being the focus of media and politicians.
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