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What kind of politician
#1
one week votes in parliament against a proposal to end the public sector pay cap, and then the next week  start to hint to the media that they are actually in favour of removing the very same cap.

And when those politicians are current members of the cabinet, you know that the Government is in disarray.
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#2
'disarray' or listening to public opinion? Interestingly I remember it being like this in Blair's final year and when Gordon took over - the govt waited to see what popular opinion was and then set their policies. Being like that isn't governing and it certainly isn't leading the country.
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#3
(07-04-2017, 07:40 AM)Shabby Russian Wrote: one week votes in parliament against a proposal to end the public sector pay cap, and then the next week  start to hint to the media that they are actually in favour of removing the very same cap.

And when those politicians are current members of the cabinet, you know that the Government is in disarray.

Collective Ministerial Responsibility to ensure that the Queens speech went through without amendment and to avoid a vote of confidence.

Not great but standard practice.

Now when 50 members defy the whip and you have to sack members of the shadow front bench  - that's disarray
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#4
(07-04-2017, 08:14 AM)Strawman Wrote:
(07-04-2017, 07:40 AM)Shabby Russian Wrote: one week votes in parliament against a proposal to end the public sector pay cap, and then the next week  start to hint to the media that they are actually in favour of removing the very same cap.

And when those politicians are current members of the cabinet, you know that the Government is in disarray.

Collective Ministerial Responsibility to ensure that the Queens speech went through without amendment and to avoid a vote of confidence.

Not great but standard practice.

Now when 50 members defy the whip and you have to sack members of the shadow front bench  - that's disarray


But collective ministerial responsibility extends beyond voting, it very much includes not putting forward to the media opinions which are contradictory to current government policy. In normal circumstances cabinet members who did such a thing would not last long as cabinet members.



The two replies so far have missed the point of the thread and have concentrated on a throwaway remark. I think we need to call out politicians and in particular cabinet ministers who make politically convenient comments to the media just mere days after they voted in a way that completely contradicts those comments. That kind of behaviour just should not be accepted by the public. It is tantamount to them taking all the benefits of being in the Government but accepting none of the responsibilities.


The contrast to the Labour situation could not be starker. In this case shadow ministers voted in a way knowing and accepting that it would cost them their shadow ministerial positions.

There is still too much with which to criticise the current Labour Party, but that isn't an example of it.
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#5
(07-04-2017, 09:41 AM)Shabby Russian Wrote:
(07-04-2017, 08:14 AM)Strawman Wrote:
(07-04-2017, 07:40 AM)Shabby Russian Wrote: one week votes in parliament against a proposal to end the public sector pay cap, and then the next week  start to hint to the media that they are actually in favour of removing the very same cap.

And when those politicians are current members of the cabinet, you know that the Government is in disarray.

Collective Ministerial Responsibility to ensure that the Queens speech went through without amendment and to avoid a vote of confidence.

Not great but standard practice.

Now when 50 members defy the whip and you have to sack members of the shadow front bench  - that's disarray


But collective ministerial responsibility extends beyond voting, it very much includes not putting forward to the media opinions which are contradictory to current government policy. In normal circumstances cabinet members who did such a thing would not last long as cabinet members.



The two replies so far have missed the point of the thread and have concentrated on a throwaway remark. I think we need to call out politicians and in particular cabinet ministers who make politically convenient comments to the media just mere days after they voted in a way that completely contradicts those comments. That kind of behaviour just should not be accepted by the public. It is tantamount to them taking all the benefits of being in the Government but accepting none of the responsibilities.


The contrast to the Labour situation could not be starker. In this case shadow ministers voted in a way knowing and accepting that it would cost them their shadow ministerial positions.

There is still too much with which to criticise the current Labour Party, but that isn't an example of it.

Fair enough and I agree. Just goes to show how weak May's authority currently is and you could say the same for Corbyn with his MP's not getting in line. You will always get politicians voting against their beliefs in order to stay in power and it was easier for the Labour MP's as they knew they had no chance of winning. I would bet if they had a chance of forcing a vote of confidence they would have fell in line.

I have said this before but we currently have the most incompetent, inept and hypocritical bunch of MP's on both sides of the house. Tories are rudderless and Labour seem to want to govern by mass protest. Bunch of twats the lot of em.
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#6
(07-04-2017, 07:40 AM)Shabby Russian Wrote: one week votes in parliament against a proposal to end the public sector pay cap, and then the next week  start to hint to the media that they are actually in favour of removing the very same cap.

And when those politicians are current members of the cabinet, you know that the Government is in disarray.

One that appreciates that the time for this debate is at the Budget, and not an opportunistic Opposition Trap. That sort.

It's fairly simple that a member of the government is not going to vote to pass an opposition amendment, isn't it?
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#7
(07-04-2017, 05:09 PM)Protheroe Wrote:
(07-04-2017, 07:40 AM)Shabby Russian Wrote: one week votes in parliament against a proposal to end the public sector pay cap, and then the next week  start to hint to the media that they are actually in favour of removing the very same cap.

And when those politicians are current members of the cabinet, you know that the Government is in disarray.

One that appreciates that the time for this debate is at the Budget, and not an opportunistic Opposition Trap. That sort.

It's fairly simple that a member of the government is not going to vote to pass an opposition amendment, isn't it?

Whatever happened to cabinet responsibility Proth? Whether it's an opposition trap or not, is not the point. What they should not be doing is giving the impression to the media that they are against a key point of Government policy.

The impression I get from your post is that you believe they are right to question the public sector pay cap. That's fair enough, but if this is their position they cannot remain in government. They need to resign from the cabinet and argue their position on this issue from the backbenches.

My view is that they hold no strong convictions on this issue one way or another, but feel that public opinion is moving against the pay cap and are currently laying down a marker for any future leadership contest.

If you want me to balance things up by making a criticism of the Labour Party, I can indulge you.
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#8
(07-04-2017, 05:09 PM)Protheroe Wrote:
(07-04-2017, 07:40 AM)Shabby Russian Wrote: one week votes in parliament against a proposal to end the public sector pay cap, and then the next week  start to hint to the media that they are actually in favour of removing the very same cap.

And when those politicians are current members of the cabinet, you know that the Government is in disarray.

One that appreciates that the time for this debate is at the Budget, and not an opportunistic Opposition Trap. That sort.

It's fairly simple that a member of the government is not going to vote to pass an opposition amendment, isn't it?

True enough. But why the cheering?
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#9
The Tories were cheering because they new if they gave the public sector the chance to have a bigger rise it would mean less for there pocket`s ,so they won the vote to MAKE THE RICH EVEN RICHER things will never change while we have a rich man`s government and a big north south divide.
                            GET LABOUR BACK IN POWER
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#10
The whole thing is a stinking swamp, with jobs for the boys on all political sides. I have had enough of the whole process. The Tories with their pandering to big business who would sell their grandmothers for another week in Office. They are sitting on concrete evidence of Saudi involvement in Terror offences in this Country and will do nothing as it may jeopardise defence contracts. Disgusting. The Labour party pandering to the bloody Unions and their schoolboy socialism, whose main claim to fame every decade or so is to totally screw the economy, ruining us all, gifting the Tories a return to power to restore austerity measures and ruining us even more.
The big failure has been the Liberal Democrats who should have been the sensible party, but have completely lost their way, just when we need them, Clegg desperate for personal power and his own place in History saw to that.
The current bunch of clowns on all sides are an utter disgrace, weak and utterly unstatesmanlike. How on earth can any party have the likes of either Diane Abbott or Boris Johnson in their midst. How the shit has an utter troll like Farage been allowed to stick his ugly face over the parapet? How on earth have we now knowingly endangered the future and the peace of Northern Ireland, so hard fought for over so many years? How have we become the laughing stock of the Western world, walking blindfold into a disastrous European exit, when all common sense says we should be in it to change it. We have become Little Britain, the myopic shithole of Europe, and I cannot see any way this will change in the near future. We are utterly, utterly fucked. End.
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