If the Conservatives win the next election

[Ossian]

The most honest assessment I've ever heard of the NHS specifically (and public services generally) came from - and this will surprise some - Anthony Charles Lynton Blair. His point was that we, as a nation, often envy European levels of healthcare and social provision generally, but we are equally attracted by the appeal of low levels of personal taxation and, with a growing and ageing population, that circle simply can't be squared.

So the consensus has been - and Blair was nothing if not a pragmatist - to try to forge a compromise between those conflicting positions (in other words, carry on fudging), knowing that 'conflicting' would eventually have to be substituted by 'irreconcilable'. We've probably already passed that point.

It could almost be seen as a choice between the North American way and the northern European way and, for what it's worth, I think that the English (used deliberately, rather than British) are more likely to incline towards the former; in many things. It's not a view I happen to share, but I do think it's in the ascendancy and was reflected in the 2016 referendum result. I shall take no pleasure if it all comes badly unstuck; which is what I believe will happen.

[TETLEY74]

Imho the NHS is not only underfunded but is managed and run appallingly with a shocking amount of wastage, it needs a root & branch reform of how if is structured and run just throwing more money at it will not solve the problems with the NHS.

[Borin' Baggie]

Imho the NHS is not only underfunded but is managed and run appallingly with a shocking amount of wastage, it needs a root & branch reform of how if is structured and run just throwing more money at it will not solve the problems with the NHS.

We tried that in 2013 and it made things worse as it only accounted for efficiency gains and not reallocating waste to areas that require extra funding. There are fundamental- issues with how the NHS is structured but unless you also throw money at the problems that need money to fix it you're just only really going to increase efficiency up to a point which can in turn cause issues with the outcomes which are the critical part. Mental health provisions in the NHS are woefully inadequate due to their underfunding, there is no structure there to reform it just needs more money to pay for more facilities, training, specialists and professionals and education. Doctors are severely underpaid across the board within the NHS, you need to increase salaries to that which requires funding. There's a shortage of nurses, you need money to address that. There's a lack of doctors and nursing in training, we need funding to address. There's a lack of awareness campaigns designed to prevent illness, you need money for that.

[Beano]

I think the hospital staff and managers should feel ashamed, no one can convince me that
A lack of funding is too blame for a sick  child having to sleep being treated on the floor.in
2019 in a major City in the UK.

This is a failure of decent treat ment and care, not one of us would expect a drunk to be treated
In that manner.

That’s the problem no matter how many facts are presented to you, you won’t accept them. Did you you accept the outright and provable lies that surrounded this story?

The facts are that the story is sady true the NHS is underfunded and the Tories have made cuts but
The organisation is poorly run, over managed and wasteful.
You can poor money in by the dumper truck but unless it is allowed to reach the front line and
The focus turns to outcomes very little will change.
I accept the truth, which is as magnificent as the NHS is only change will allow the extra funds
TO be truly effective.

[TETLEY74]

Imho the NHS is not only underfunded but is managed and run appallingly with a shocking amount of wastage, it needs a root & branch reform of how if is structured and run just throwing more money at it will not solve the problems with the NHS.

We tried that in 2013 and it made things worse as it only accounted for efficiency gains and not reallocating waste to areas that require extra funding. There are fundamental- issues with how the NHS is structured but unless you also throw money at the problems that need money to fix it you're just only really going to increase efficiency up to a point which can in turn cause issues with the outcomes which are the critical part. Mental health provisions in the NHS are woefully inadequate due to their underfunding, there is no structure there to reform it just needs more money to pay for more facilities, training, specialists and professionals and education. Doctors are severely underpaid across the board within the NHS, you need to increase salaries to that which requires funding. There's a shortage of nurses, you need money to address that. There's a lack of doctors and nursing in training, we need funding to address. There's a lack of awareness campaigns designed to prevent illness, you need money for that.

More money will only solve some problems but not all it needs a combination of both Increased investment and restructuring, there are imho far to many layers of management and bureaucracy.

[Babel]

The most honest assessment I've ever heard of the NHS specifically (and public services generally) came from - and this will surprise some - Anthony Charles Lynton Blair. His point was that we, as a nation, often envy European levels of healthcare and social provision generally, but we are equally attracted by the appeal of low levels of personal taxation and, with a growing and ageing population, that circle simply can't be squared.

So the consensus has been - and Blair was nothing if not a pragmatist - to try to forge a compromise between those conflicting positions (in other words, carry on fudging), knowing that 'conflicting' would eventually have to be substituted by 'irreconcilable'. We've probably already passed that point.

It could almost be seen as a choice between the North American way and the northern European way and, for what it's worth, I think that the English (used deliberately, rather than British) are more likely to incline towards the former; in many things. It's not a view I happen to share, but I do think it's in the ascendancy and was reflected in the 2016 referendum result. I shall take no pleasure if it all comes badly unstuck; which is what I believe will happen.

Good  perspective post, Oss (and all). The NHS sounds like it's trying to do more with less, year on year, and as more and more treatments become available. The US, without doubt, gets much less dollar-for-dollar out of its huge health spend, with good treatment for a majority and meagre resources for those who can't pay or aren't adequately insured. The American model is not one to emulate, even if that is where we may be heading. Health systems elsewhere are also by no means perfect  (with abundant stories similar to Dreamkiller's), but manage to do more (and spend more) with broadly comparable universal models.