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Nick Clegg caught-out lying about single market
#1
Clegg continues to lie and claim that there is no mandate to leave the single market as the Leave side didn;t make it clear that this would happen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekK_jcR5xs0

Brillo shows him clips of himself saying, "The Brexit camp have come clean now and said 'We don't like it; we dislike it so much that we want to tear-up Margaret Thatcher's Single European Act; we don't want anything to do with the single market, either'."

At 3.46 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekK_jcR5xs0

Looks like his new attempt to cover his lie that it wasn't clear that leavig the EU = leaving the single market is to say that no manifesto was issued. Did the Remain side issue one? Why did he not make an issue of that at the time?

Slimy, disgusting little man.
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#2
There is no mandate for leaving the single market, there is a mandate for leaving the EU. The only mandate is leaving the EU, which contrary to a few ideologues, isn't the single market.

The leave side argued leaving the European single market, and two separate cases of staying in the single market Norway (EEA) and Swiss (EFTA). There was no mandate for leaving with no trade deal and resorting to WTO solely either. These are all ideas.

If remain won and tried to use that as a means for pro federalisation I would be extremely pissed off. That is one scenario of us staying. Another was us keeping the status quo or implementing Cameron's reforms. These are also ideas.

The only thing made clear was that it was the governments role to implement their idea after the referendum.

This coming general election will provide a government mandate on Brexit as there isn't one currently. Labour and the Tories have said no freedom of movement (leaving the single market), Lib Dems have said joining the EEA (staying in the single market). The party with the majority of seats will then have a mandate for their idea of Brexit (let's not beat around the bush. The conservatives will win and will implement their mandate on leaving the single market)

The only person lying is you.
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#3
(05-16-2017, 05:41 PM)BoringBaggie Wrote: There is no mandate for leaving the single market, there is a mandate for leaving the EU. The only mandate is leaving the EU, which contrary to a few ideologues, isn't the single market.

The leave side argued leaving the European single market, and two separate cases of staying in the single market Norway (EEA) and Swiss (EFTA). There was no mandate for leaving with no trade deal and resorting to WTO solely either. These are all ideas.

If remain won and tried to use that as a means for pro federalisation I would be extremely pissed off. That is one scenario of us staying. Another was us keeping the status quo or implementing Cameron's reforms. These are also ideas.

The only thing made clear was that it was the governments role to implement their idea after the referendum.

This coming general election will provide a government mandate on Brexit as there isn't one currently. Labour and the Tories have said no freedom of movement (leaving the single market), Lib Dems have said joining the EEA (staying in the single market). The party with the majority of seats will then have a mandate for their idea of Brexit (let's not beat around the bush. The conservatives will win and will implement their mandate on leaving the single market)

The only person lying is you.

Spot on
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#4
(05-16-2017, 05:41 PM)BoringBaggie Wrote: There is no mandate for leaving the single market, there is a mandate for leaving the EU. The only mandate is leaving the EU, which contrary to a few ideologues, isn't the single market.

The leave side argued leaving the European single market, and two separate cases of staying in the single market Norway (EEA) and Swiss (EFTA). There was no mandate for leaving with no trade deal and resorting to WTO solely either. These are all ideas.

If remain won and tried to use that as a means for pro federalisation I would be extremely pissed off. That is one scenario of us staying. Another was us keeping the status quo or implementing Cameron's reforms. These are also ideas.

The only thing made clear was that it was the governments role to implement their idea after the referendum.

This coming general election will provide a government mandate on Brexit as there isn't one currently. Labour and the Tories have said no freedom of movement (leaving the single market), Lib Dems have said joining the EEA (staying in the single market). The party with the majority of seats will then have a mandate for their idea of Brexit (let's not beat around the bush. The conservatives will win and will implement their mandate on leaving the single market)

The only person lying is you.
Bang on. On every single point. Top post.
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#5
(05-16-2017, 05:41 PM)BoringBaggie Wrote: There is no mandate for leaving the single market, there is a mandate for leaving the EU. The only mandate is leaving the EU, which contrary to a few ideologues, isn't the single market.

The leave side argued leaving the European single market, and two separate cases of staying in the single market Norway (EEA) and Swiss (EFTA). There was no mandate for leaving with no trade deal and resorting to WTO solely either. These are all ideas.

If remain won and tried to use that as a means for pro federalisation I would be extremely pissed off. That is one scenario of us staying. Another was us keeping the status quo or implementing Cameron's reforms. These are also ideas.

The only thing made clear was that it was the governments role to implement their idea after the referendum.

This coming general election will provide a government mandate on Brexit as there isn't one currently. Labour and the Tories have said no freedom of movement (leaving the single market), Lib Dems have said joining the EEA (staying in the single market). The party with the majority of seats will then have a mandate for their idea of Brexit (let's not beat around the bush. The conservatives will win and will implement their mandate on leaving the single market)

The only person lying is you.

Stronger in, Vote Leave (the official campaign, remember) and the two most senior government figures, the PM and Chancellor, all clearly stated that a vote to leave the EU is a vote to leave the single market. You must have been too unaware to have noticed. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dghdvVbtowM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNnh-KhiLm0

I didn't hear anyone in the referendum campaign promote the EFTA/EEA option.

So, mon ami, is anyone's lying here, it's not me.  And don't bother putting-up that ridiculous video by Open Britain, it has been debunked as being edited to misrepresent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHzmCHcM7cA

Apology accepted.

(05-16-2017, 09:14 PM)Heath Wrote:
(05-16-2017, 05:41 PM)BoringBaggie Wrote: There is no mandate for leaving the single market, there is a mandate for leaving the EU. The only mandate is leaving the EU, which contrary to a few ideologues, isn't the single market.

The leave side argued leaving the European single market, and two separate cases of staying in the single market Norway (EEA) and Swiss (EFTA). There was no mandate for leaving with no trade deal and resorting to WTO solely either. These are all ideas.

If remain won and tried to use that as a means for pro federalisation I would be extremely pissed off. That is one scenario of us staying. Another was us keeping the status quo or implementing Cameron's reforms. These are also ideas.

The only thing made clear was that it was the governments role to implement their idea after the referendum.

This coming general election will provide a government mandate on Brexit as there isn't one currently. Labour and the Tories have said no freedom of movement (leaving the single market), Lib Dems have said joining the EEA (staying in the single market). The party with the majority of seats will then have a mandate for their idea of Brexit (let's not beat around the bush. The conservatives will win and will implement their mandate on leaving the single market)

The only person lying is you.
Bang on. On every single point. Top post.

It's very easy to impress some people. 

Which way did you vote in the referendum? Was it for remain, at all, after you threw a strop because I assumed that this was the way you voted? 

If so, bit of a pointless tantrum 

I ask both of you to do a google for 'vote leave single market' with a stop date of June 23 last year. You will see how many times it was made clear.

It still baffles me as to how you both could have failed to comprehend it.
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#6
(05-16-2017, 09:38 PM)Mandown_Pilt Wrote:
(05-16-2017, 05:41 PM)BoringBaggie Wrote: There is no mandate for leaving the single market, there is a mandate for leaving the EU. The only mandate is leaving the EU, which contrary to a few ideologues, isn't the single market.

The leave side argued leaving the European single market, and two separate cases of staying in the single market Norway (EEA) and Swiss (EFTA). There was no mandate for leaving with no trade deal and resorting to WTO solely either. These are all ideas.

If remain won and tried to use that as a means for pro federalisation I would be extremely pissed off. That is one scenario of us staying. Another was us keeping the status quo or implementing Cameron's reforms. These are also ideas.

The only thing made clear was that it was the governments role to implement their idea after the referendum.

This coming general election will provide a government mandate on Brexit as there isn't one currently. Labour and the Tories have said no freedom of movement (leaving the single market), Lib Dems have said joining the EEA (staying in the single market). The party with the majority of seats will then have a mandate for their idea of Brexit (let's not beat around the bush. The conservatives will win and will implement their mandate on leaving the single market)

The only person lying is you.

Stronger in, Vote Leave (the official campaign, remember) and the two most senior government figures, the PM and Chancellor, all clearly stated that a vote to leave the EU is a vote to leave the single market. You must have been too unaware to have noticed. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dghdvVbtowM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNnh-KhiLm0

So, mon ami, is anyone's lying here, it's not me. 

Apology accepted.

[Image: ballot-paper.jpg]
I don't have to apologise, I have the a picture of the actual ballot paper that was used.

You, and many other people, want to leave the single market. That does not mean that you, and many other people, voted to leave the single market. My mum voted to leave the EU, she wants to remain in the single market. These were all ideas on what leaving entailed, it isn't what was voted on. It was about what could happen, not will happen.

The single market is not the EU. Leaving the EU does not mean leaving the single market. The single market is a common market that consists of the 28 (soon to be 27) EU member states along with the European Economic Area, Croatia who is subject to all EU regulation as per their position as a provisional EU member, and Switzerland through a bilateral trade agreement.

As I said above, people argued for leaving the single market particularly the Norway model due to the banking passport but also the Swiss model, people in the government, people in the vote leave campaign.

There is no mandate on leaving the single market. A mandate is a specific thing in politics, it is when authority is granted through a vote. An MP is a mandate, a manifesto is a mandate and a referendum result is a mandate. There was no referendum on leaving the single market. The referendum wasn't split leave the single market with free trade, leave the single market with WTO, Swiss model, Norway model, status quo, Cameron's reforms, full federalisation and Euro.

And as I said, because of there being no mandate, both Labour and the Conservatives are creating one through their manifestos as are the Lib Dems.

This entire thread is you trying to have a go at Nick Clegg because you don't know what the vote was about. You knew what you wanted but that isn't what you voted for. You know why you voted as you did but you don't know what you voted for. Either that or you're lying about Nick Clegg lying because you don't know what a mandate is.
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#7
(05-16-2017, 10:06 PM)BoringBaggie Wrote:
(05-16-2017, 09:38 PM)Mandown_Pilt Wrote:
(05-16-2017, 05:41 PM)BoringBaggie Wrote: There is no mandate for leaving the single market, there is a mandate for leaving the EU. The only mandate is leaving the EU, which contrary to a few ideologues, isn't the single market.

The leave side argued leaving the European single market, and two separate cases of staying in the single market Norway (EEA) and Swiss (EFTA). There was no mandate for leaving with no trade deal and resorting to WTO solely either. These are all ideas.

If remain won and tried to use that as a means for pro federalisation I would be extremely pissed off. That is one scenario of us staying. Another was us keeping the status quo or implementing Cameron's reforms. These are also ideas.

The only thing made clear was that it was the governments role to implement their idea after the referendum.

This coming general election will provide a government mandate on Brexit as there isn't one currently. Labour and the Tories have said no freedom of movement (leaving the single market), Lib Dems have said joining the EEA (staying in the single market). The party with the majority of seats will then have a mandate for their idea of Brexit (let's not beat around the bush. The conservatives will win and will implement their mandate on leaving the single market)

The only person lying is you.

Stronger in, Vote Leave (the official campaign, remember) and the two most senior government figures, the PM and Chancellor, all clearly stated that a vote to leave the EU is a vote to leave the single market. You must have been too unaware to have noticed. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dghdvVbtowM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNnh-KhiLm0

So, mon ami, is anyone's lying here, it's not me. 

Apology accepted.

[Image: ballot-paper.jpg]
I don't have to apologise, I have the a picture of the actual ballot paper that was used.

You, and many other people, want to leave the single market. That does not mean that you, and many other people, voted to leave the single market. My mum voted to leave the EU, she wants to remain in the single market. These were all ideas on what leaving entailed, it isn't what was voted on. It was about what could happen, not will happen.

The single market is not the EU. Leaving the EU does not mean leaving the single market. The single market is a common market that consists of the 28 (soon to be 27) EU member states along with the European Economic Area, Croatia who is subject to all EU regulation as per their position as a provisional EU member, and Switzerland through a bilateral trade agreement.

As I said above, people argued for leaving the single market particularly the Norway model due to the banking passport but also the Swiss model, people in the government, people in the vote leave campaign.

There is no mandate on leaving the single market. A mandate is a specific thing in politics, it is when authority is granted through a vote. An MP is a mandate, a manifesto is a mandate and a referendum result is a mandate. There was no referendum on leaving the single market. The referendum wasn't split leave the single market with free trade, leave the single market with WTO, Swiss model, Norway model, status quo, Cameron's reforms, full federalisation and Euro.

And as I said, because of there being no mandate, both Labour and the Conservatives are creating one through their manifestos as are the Lib Dems.

This entire thread is you trying to have a go at Nick Clegg because you don't know what the vote was about. You knew what you wanted but that isn't what you voted for. You know why you voted as you did but you don't know what you voted for. Either that or you're lying about Nick Clegg lying because you don't know what a mandate is.

He will call you stupid it's all he's got.
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#8
(05-16-2017, 09:38 PM)Mandown_Pilt Wrote:
(05-16-2017, 05:41 PM)BoringBaggie Wrote: There is no mandate for leaving the single market, there is a mandate for leaving the EU. The only mandate is leaving the EU, which contrary to a few ideologues, isn't the single market.

The leave side argued leaving the European single market, and two separate cases of staying in the single market Norway (EEA) and Swiss (EFTA). There was no mandate for leaving with no trade deal and resorting to WTO solely either. These are all ideas.

If remain won and tried to use that as a means for pro federalisation I would be extremely pissed off. That is one scenario of us staying. Another was us keeping the status quo or implementing Cameron's reforms. These are also ideas.

The only thing made clear was that it was the governments role to implement their idea after the referendum.

This coming general election will provide a government mandate on Brexit as there isn't one currently. Labour and the Tories have said no freedom of movement (leaving the single market), Lib Dems have said joining the EEA (staying in the single market). The party with the majority of seats will then have a mandate for their idea of Brexit (let's not beat around the bush. The conservatives will win and will implement their mandate on leaving the single market)

The only person lying is you.

Stronger in, Vote Leave (the official campaign, remember) and the two most senior government figures, the PM and Chancellor, all clearly stated that a vote to leave the EU is a vote to leave the single market. You must have been too unaware to have noticed. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dghdvVbtowM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNnh-KhiLm0

I didn't hear anyone in the referendum campaign promote the EFTA/EEA option.

So, mon ami, is anyone's lying here, it's not me.  And don't bother putting-up that ridiculous video by Open Britain, it has been debunked as being edited to misrepresent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHzmCHcM7cA

Apology accepted.

(05-16-2017, 09:14 PM)Heath Wrote:
(05-16-2017, 05:41 PM)BoringBaggie Wrote: There is no mandate for leaving the single market, there is a mandate for leaving the EU. The only mandate is leaving the EU, which contrary to a few ideologues, isn't the single market.

The leave side argued leaving the European single market, and two separate cases of staying in the single market Norway (EEA) and Swiss (EFTA). There was no mandate for leaving with no trade deal and resorting to WTO solely either. These are all ideas.

If remain won and tried to use that as a means for pro federalisation I would be extremely pissed off. That is one scenario of us staying. Another was us keeping the status quo or implementing Cameron's reforms. These are also ideas.

The only thing made clear was that it was the governments role to implement their idea after the referendum.

This coming general election will provide a government mandate on Brexit as there isn't one currently. Labour and the Tories have said no freedom of movement (leaving the single market), Lib Dems have said joining the EEA (staying in the single market). The party with the majority of seats will then have a mandate for their idea of Brexit (let's not beat around the bush. The conservatives will win and will implement their mandate on leaving the single market)

The only person lying is you.
Bang on. On every single point. Top post.

It's very easy to impress some people. 

Which way did you vote in the referendum? Was it for remain, at all, after you threw a strop because I assumed that this was the way you voted? 

If so, bit of a pointless tantrum 

I ask both of you to do a google for 'vote leave single market' with a stop date of June 23 last year. You will see how many times it was made clear.

It still baffles me as to how you both could have failed to comprehend it.

I voted remain for several reasons. The main reasons were to guarantee scientific cooperation through mainly Euratom and specific ESA contracts that require the EU, to minimise the amount of work when it comes to importing, the fact that it opens up the market allowing a wider range of choice for consumers as well as more competition leading to a freer market, the fact that the EU is able to secure more favourable trade deals than us on our own.

I ask you to do a google search for "vote leave Norway" or "vote leave Switzerland".

It baffles me that you don't know the definition of a mandate nor what was explicitly written on the ballot paper.
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#9
Clegg wasn't caught out lying, and I am by no means a supporter of his, but he is far from being a slimy disgusting man.

Early in the referendum campaign, many Brexiteers put forward the possibility of leaving the EU, but have access to the single market in the way Norway did.

As the campaign went on, and it became clear that to many voters the key issue was immigration, and that remaining in the single market meant retaining freedom of movement, there were more voices that said leaving the EU meant having to leave the single market as well - but it was by no meant the only view on offer from the Brexit side.
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#10
YOU ARE ALL STUPID AND I AM RIGHT ARE YOU GOING TO APOLOGISE??
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