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Paul Nuttels and the UKIPers
#31
(05-03-2017, 05:08 PM)Mandown_Pilt Wrote:
(05-03-2017, 10:20 AM)Zoltanger Wrote: Why do many leavers who blow a gasket when they are lumped in with the racists/xenophobes also lump all remain voters in with those who think the EU is close to be being perfect?

Because being called a racist or xenophobe is a serious allegation, and it therefore isn't very pleasant to be lumped in with such people. Being accused of thinking the EU is perfect isn't serious. 

You needed that explaining?

Fuck me.

No, it was the lumping in together that is the same not the reaction.
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#32
(05-03-2017, 06:23 PM)Zoltanger Wrote:
(05-03-2017, 05:08 PM)Mandown_Pilt Wrote:
(05-03-2017, 10:20 AM)Zoltanger Wrote: Why do many leavers who blow a gasket when they are lumped in with the racists/xenophobes also lump all remain voters in with those who think the EU is close to be being perfect?

Because being called a racist or xenophobe is a serious allegation, and it therefore isn't very pleasant to be lumped in with such people. Being accused of thinking the EU is perfect isn't serious. 

You needed that explaining?

Fuck me.

No, it was the lumping in together that is the same not the reaction.

Okay, fair enough. 

Just out of interest, what about the EU don't you like? Are you like Tim Farron, 'a bit of a Eursceptic'?
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#33
(05-03-2017, 06:43 PM)Mandown_Pilt Wrote:
(05-03-2017, 06:23 PM)Zoltanger Wrote:
(05-03-2017, 05:08 PM)Mandown_Pilt Wrote:
(05-03-2017, 10:20 AM)Zoltanger Wrote: Why do many leavers who blow a gasket when they are lumped in with the racists/xenophobes also lump all remain voters in with those who think the EU is close to be being perfect?

Because being called a racist or xenophobe is a serious allegation, and it therefore isn't very pleasant to be lumped in with such people. Being accused of thinking the EU is perfect isn't serious. 

You needed that explaining?

Fuck me.

No, it was the lumping in together that is the same not the reaction.

Okay, fair enough. 

Just out of interest, what about the EU don't you like? Are you like Tim Farron, 'a bit of a Eursceptic'?

As I've made clear on here before I wasn't too keen on any move towards federalisation. I may get round to giving a better explanation at some point. It might be close to Tim's.
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#34
I suppose the move towards federalisation was the main negative. I am/was against an EU army and thank goodness we didn't adopt the Euro . Another negative off the top of my head is the waste of money on vanity projects, but isn't that true of most/all councils and governments as well.

My remain vote was mainly based on believing that working cooperatively we can achieve so much more. Moving away from an organisation where former enemies, just a generation or two ago, can work together and help their poorer members saddens me.

I do also think history will see it as just a small backwards step along the path of the human aspect of globalisation. So many of our lives are emmeshed with people from elsewhere and I feel younger generations will demand the rights to move around. I know they can still but ending freedom of movement will hamper it. We'll see.

Always worth watching



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#35
May is clearly moving into UKIP space in this campaign which could reduce both their vote and impact. Not sure how she can the repair her reputation across the EU post election but hey a month is a long time in politics.
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#36
(05-04-2017, 06:20 AM)Bratislava Baggie Wrote: May is clearly moving into UKIP space in this campaign which could reduce both their vote and impact. Not sure how she can the repair her reputation across the EU post election but hey a month is a long time in politics.

The EU haven't got a vote in this or the next election so I doubt she gives a shit.
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#37
(05-04-2017, 05:54 AM)Zoltanger Wrote: I suppose the move towards federalisation was the main negative. I am/was against an EU army and thank goodness we didn't adopt the Euro . Another negative off the top of my head is the waste of money on vanity projects, but isn't that true of most/all councils and governments as well.

My remain vote was mainly based on believing that working cooperatively we can achieve so much more. Moving away from an organisation where former enemies, just a generation or two ago, can work together and help their poorer members saddens me.

I do also think history will see it as just a small backwards step along the path of the human aspect of globalisation. So many of our lives are emmeshed with people from elsewhere and I feel younger generations will demand the rights to move around. I know they can still but ending freedom of movement will hamper it. We'll see.

Always worth watching




But greater federalisation was always the plan. Politicians in 1975 were, at best, naive about this. After all the preamble to the Treaty of Rome spoke about 'ever closer union'. And the jurisprudence of the ECJ right from the early days made it clear that, where there were legal lacunae, it made decisions to 'further the aims of the Treaty'. That is, it effectively 'made' law to further 'ever closer union'.

I saw a quote yesterday attributed to Thatcher (yes, I know, that jumper in 1975) to the effect of that future generations will look back on the attempt to create a superstate and wonder how and why it was ever thought a good idea.

Cameron secured an opt-out for the UK of 'ever closer union' which was stated to be added to the Treaty if we voted to remain. But that would have required unanimity in Council - I honestly think that at least one Member State would have thrown a spanner in the works.
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#38
(05-04-2017, 02:07 PM)Protheroe Wrote:
(05-04-2017, 06:20 AM)Bratislava Baggie Wrote: May is clearly moving into UKIP space in this campaign which could reduce both their vote and impact. Not sure how she can the repair her reputation across the EU post election but hey a month is a long time in politics.

The EU haven't got a vote in this or the next election so I doubt she gives a shit.

My idiot's qualitative assessment of the zeitgeist is that we have roughly equal amounts of hardleavers, hardremainers and those who could of voted either way. If she keeps up a hardline approach then the first two groups will obviously lap it up/spit it out. Who knows what the last lot will do.
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#39
(05-04-2017, 06:20 AM)Bratislava Baggie Wrote: May is clearly moving into UKIP space in this campaign which could reduce both their vote and impact. Not sure how she can the repair her reputation across the EU post election but hey a month is a long time in politics.

It doesn't look like she needs to bother. UKIP are now irrelevant.
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#40
(05-05-2017, 08:23 AM)chasetownbaggie Wrote:
(05-04-2017, 06:20 AM)Bratislava Baggie Wrote: May is clearly moving into UKIP space in this campaign which could reduce both their vote and impact. Not sure how she can the repair her reputation across the EU post election but hey a month is a long time in politics.

It doesn't look like she needs to bother. UKIP are now irrelevant.

Yes, game over.
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