Trumpism takes hold of Brexiteers
#31
Populism is not the same as representation
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#32
O
(Yesterday, 06:55 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(Yesterday, 06:41 PM)ChamonixBaggie Wrote:
(Yesterday, 06:18 PM)Sotv Wrote: The council and the parliament selected von Der Leyden, ergo UK MEPs and the UK government. - so the public never got a vote
Tusk is elected by the council, ergo the UK government - So the public never got a vote
Tajani was elected by MEPs, including the UK MEPs, same as Sassoli - so the public never got a vote
There seems a common thread here, but given how little remainers seem to value any vote that goes against their view why am i surprised you think this state of affairs is OK?

So what you're saying is...the public should always vote on any governmental position of authority. Interesting, perhaps you'd like to tell the Tories?

Also - VDL is head of the Commision which proposes legislation but does not have a vote on whether it is implemented so why would she need to be elected by the public? Our civil servants aren't. Also, this role is elected by the European Parliament whose MEPs are elected by the public.

Tusk is president of the council which provides policy direction but has no legislative power so why would he need to be elected by the public? Again, our civil servants aren't

Tajani is the president of the Parliament which is a role analagous to the speaker of the HoC, why would he need to be elected by the public and if he does, why doesn't our speaker? This role is elected by the MEPs who are elected by the public, in much the same way as our Prime Minister is. 

The only people in the EU who actually have a vote on whether a piece of legislation is passed ARE directly elected by the public and they are then responsible for electing people to position of authority in the other branches of government. This seems perfectly democratic to me and in fact more democratic that the UK when only 1 of two houses is elected.

Brexiteers don’t need facts they ‘believe’.

Your correct, I believe these are facts!

Special legislative Procedures:
The treaties have provision for special legislative procedures to be used in sensitive areas. These see the Council adopt alone with just the involvement of the other. Notable procedures are the consultation and consent procedures, though various others are used for specific cases.
Under this procedure the Council, acting either unanimously or by a qualified majority depending on the policy area concerned, can adopt legislation based on a proposal by the European Commission after consulting the European Parliament. While being required to consult Parliament on legislative proposals, the Council is not bound by Parliament's position. In practice the Council would frequently ignore whatever Parliament might suggest and even sometimes reach an agreement before receiving Parliament's opinion.
This is used for 15 particular areas which include Foreign Policy and Competition laws. Having spent about 20mins trying to find the full list I gave up looking. Clearly the Commission aren’t keen on people knowing what they are.

Commission and Council acting alone
Under this procedure the Council can adopt legal acts proposed by the Commission without requiring the opinion of Parliament. The procedure is used when setting the common external tariffs (Article 31 (ex Article 26)) and for negotiating trade agreements under the EU’s Common Commercial Policy. 

So to say that the “ONLY people to actually have a vote “ to pass legislation ARE directly elected”, is erroneous.

CWB; The biggest Federal Government in the world is the U.S.A. but its president isn’t chosen by the Senators or Congressmen. It is chosen by the whole electorate.


https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/counc...rocedures/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/g...126903.stm
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#33
Exclamation 
(Today, 08:23 AM)John Osborne’s Knuckle Wrote: O
(Yesterday, 06:55 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(Yesterday, 06:41 PM)ChamonixBaggie Wrote:
(Yesterday, 06:18 PM)Sotv Wrote: The council and the parliament selected von Der Leyden, ergo UK MEPs and the UK government. - so the public never got a vote
Tusk is elected by the council, ergo the UK government - So the public never got a vote
Tajani was elected by MEPs, including the UK MEPs, same as Sassoli - so the public never got a vote
There seems a common thread here, but given how little remainers seem to value any vote that goes against their view why am i surprised you think this state of affairs is OK?

So what you're saying is...the public should always vote on any governmental position of authority. Interesting, perhaps you'd like to tell the Tories?

Also - VDL is head of the Commision which proposes legislation but does not have a vote on whether it is implemented so why would she need to be elected by the public? Our civil servants aren't. Also, this role is elected by the European Parliament whose MEPs are elected by the public.

Tusk is president of the council which provides policy direction but has no legislative power so why would he need to be elected by the public? Again, our civil servants aren't

Tajani is the president of the Parliament which is a role analagous to the speaker of the HoC, why would he need to be elected by the public and if he does, why doesn't our speaker? This role is elected by the MEPs who are elected by the public, in much the same way as our Prime Minister is. 

The only people in the EU who actually have a vote on whether a piece of legislation is passed ARE directly elected by the public and they are then responsible for electing people to position of authority in the other branches of government. This seems perfectly democratic to me and in fact more democratic that the UK when only 1 of two houses is elected.

Brexiteers don’t need facts they ‘believe’.

CWB; The biggest Federal Government in the world is the U.S.A. but its president isn’t chosen by the Senators or Congressmen. It is chosen by the whole electorate.

No, the position of US President is selected by the members of the electoral college, not the whole electorate. If it was the whole electorate, then Hillary Clinton would be president as she won the most votes.
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#34
(Today, 08:23 AM)John Osborne’s Knuckle Wrote: O
(Yesterday, 06:55 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(Yesterday, 06:41 PM)ChamonixBaggie Wrote:
(Yesterday, 06:18 PM)Sotv Wrote: The council and the parliament selected von Der Leyden, ergo UK MEPs and the UK government. - so the public never got a vote
Tusk is elected by the council, ergo the UK government - So the public never got a vote
Tajani was elected by MEPs, including the UK MEPs, same as Sassoli - so the public never got a vote
There seems a common thread here, but given how little remainers seem to value any vote that goes against their view why am i surprised you think this state of affairs is OK?

So what you're saying is...the public should always vote on any governmental position of authority. Interesting, perhaps you'd like to tell the Tories?

Also - VDL is head of the Commision which proposes legislation but does not have a vote on whether it is implemented so why would she need to be elected by the public? Our civil servants aren't. Also, this role is elected by the European Parliament whose MEPs are elected by the public.

Tusk is president of the council which provides policy direction but has no legislative power so why would he need to be elected by the public? Again, our civil servants aren't

Tajani is the president of the Parliament which is a role analagous to the speaker of the HoC, why would he need to be elected by the public and if he does, why doesn't our speaker? This role is elected by the MEPs who are elected by the public, in much the same way as our Prime Minister is. 

The only people in the EU who actually have a vote on whether a piece of legislation is passed ARE directly elected by the public and they are then responsible for electing people to position of authority in the other branches of government. This seems perfectly democratic to me and in fact more democratic that the UK when only 1 of two houses is elected.

Brexiteers don’t need facts they ‘believe’.

Your correct, I believe these are facts!

Special legislative Procedures:
The treaties have provision for special legislative procedures to be used in sensitive areas. These see the Council adopt alone with just the involvement of the other. Notable procedures are the consultation and consent procedures, though various others are used for specific cases.
Under this procedure the Council, acting either unanimously or by a qualified majority depending on the policy area concerned, can adopt legislation based on a proposal by the European Commission after consulting the European Parliament. While being required to consult Parliament on legislative proposals, the Council is not bound by Parliament's position. In practice the Council would frequently ignore whatever Parliament might suggest and even sometimes reach an agreement before receiving Parliament's opinion.
This is used for 15 particular areas which include Foreign Policy and Competition laws. Having spent about 20mins trying to find the full list I gave up looking. Clearly the Commission aren’t keen on people knowing what they are.

Commission and Council acting alone
Under this procedure the Council can adopt legal acts proposed by the Commission without requiring the opinion of Parliament. The procedure is used when setting the common external tariffs (Article 31 (ex Article 26)) and for negotiating trade agreements under the EU’s Common Commercial Policy. 

So to say that the “ONLY people to actually  have a vote “ to pass legislation ARE directly elected”, is erroneous.

CWB; The biggest Federal Government in the world is the U.S.A. but its president isn’t chosen by the Senators or Congressmen. It is chosen by the whole electorate.


https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/counc...rocedures/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/g...126903.stm

If it was up to the ‘electorate’ in the US Trump would have lost. Which would of seen the world a lot better place. 

Currently there is nothing in law to stop Johnson closing parliament for any length of time as long as he can give a spurious reason to the Queen who cannot really turn him / government down. 

With FPTP voting system thousands if not millions of people’s votes / voices are simply ignored for decades. 

Singling out the problems of one particular format of governance is fine but it doesn’t make your point any stronger given the problems in all systems of democracy.
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#35
(11 hours ago)Derek Hardballs Wrote:
(Today, 08:23 AM)John Osborne’s Knuckle Wrote: O
(Yesterday, 06:55 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: Brexiteers don’t need facts they ‘believe’.

Your correct, I believe these are facts!

Special legislative Procedures:
The treaties have provision for special legislative procedures to be used in sensitive areas. These see the Council adopt alone with just the involvement of the other. Notable procedures are the consultation and consent procedures, though various others are used for specific cases.
Under this procedure the Council, acting either unanimously or by a qualified majority depending on the policy area concerned, can adopt legislation based on a proposal by the European Commission after consulting the European Parliament. While being required to consult Parliament on legislative proposals, the Council is not bound by Parliament's position. In practice the Council would frequently ignore whatever Parliament might suggest and even sometimes reach an agreement before receiving Parliament's opinion.
This is used for 15 particular areas which include Foreign Policy and Competition laws. Having spent about 20mins trying to find the full list I gave up looking. Clearly the Commission aren’t keen on people knowing what they are.

Commission and Council acting alone
Under this procedure the Council can adopt legal acts proposed by the Commission without requiring the opinion of Parliament. The procedure is used when setting the common external tariffs (Article 31 (ex Article 26)) and for negotiating trade agreements under the EU’s Common Commercial Policy. 

So to say that the “ONLY people to actually  have a vote “ to pass legislation ARE directly elected”, is erroneous.

CWB; The biggest Federal Government in the world is the U.S.A. but its president isn’t chosen by the Senators or Congressmen. It is chosen by the whole electorate.


https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/counc...rocedures/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/g...126903.stm

If it was up to the ‘electorate’ in the US Trump would have lost. Which would of seen the world a lot better place. 

Currently there is nothing in law to stop Johnson closing parliament for any length of time as long as he can give a spurious reason to the Queen who cannot really turn him / government down. 

With FPTP voting system thousands if not millions of people’s votes / voices are simply ignored for decades. 

Singling out the problems of one particular format of governance is fine but it doesn’t make your point any stronger given the problems in all systems of democracy.
No retort to erroneous statement that the MEPs have more say than MPs then? i.e. The EU is more democratic.

If there is “nothing in law to stop any PM closing parliament for any length of time, why is there legal proceedings going on at the moment? 

Singling out the problems of one particular political party (as you do ad nauseam) is fine but it doesn’t make your point any stronger given the problems in all parties. 
Ignoring the problems in your favourite’s system of governance doesn't make  your point at all.
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