Why would any Conservative vote against the government?
#11
(09-03-2019, 11:20 PM)SausEggBaton Wrote: It's the remainer MP's fault we are at this juncture.  That cnut Corbyn also.

Why not accept that Brexit is happening and get with the program and think of solutions rather than disrupt and destroy an entire country via their own petty squabbling.

Brexit isn't happening though. Parliament has it pretty much sewn up now - it's not going to be allowed to happen.

This will all play into Johnson's narrative of Parliament vs People though, which is something they should have been wary about.
Refugee from westbrom.com
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#12
The problem with Johnson's parliament vs the people is that there are at least 48% of the population that don't believe a word he says, especially with the planks he has surrounded himself with. Of the remaining 52% half of them want Farage not him. IF he goes to an election he will be decimated and the country will be even more divided.

I predict something like Conservatives 25%, Labour 25%, Lib Dems 25%, SNP 15%, Others 10% - wait til that occurs to see a real hung parliament.

Two Conservative prime ministers have gone to the country to get a mandate and failed, Boris is about to make the same mistake.
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#13
(09-04-2019, 07:55 AM)Fall Out Boy Wrote:
(09-03-2019, 11:20 PM)SausEggBaton Wrote: It's the remainer MP's fault we are at this juncture.  That cnut Corbyn also.

Why not accept that Brexit is happening and get with the program and think of solutions rather than disrupt and destroy an entire country via their own petty squabbling.

Brexit isn't happening though. Parliament has it pretty much sewn up now - it's not going to be allowed to happen.

This will all play into Johnson's narrative of Parliament vs People though, which is something they should have been wary about.

Why is it Parliament vs People? How come some sections of society are 'The People' and others aren't? Who decides this? The referendum was pretty much 50/50 and subsequent elections have shown that the country remains split down the middle between leave and remain supporting parties. 

Given that no one is changing their minds at this stage (EDIT: apart from zendog apparently...)The coming GE will be decided entirely on who can mobilise the electorate most successfully (and if we can get a proper Remain alliance). If Johnson thinks he can get a majority out of it he's more deluded than I thought.
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#14
You’re only ‘the people’ if you voted for Brexit. As soon as someone comes on the TV or radio etc and says those trite words I switch off from anything they have to say.

I’m still waiting for the answer as to why these senior Tory politicians covered themselves in mint sauce and offered themselves up as sacrificial lambs? What is in it for them other than their principles?
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#15
(09-04-2019, 08:46 AM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: You’re only ‘the people’ if you voted for Brexit. As soon as someone comes on the TV or radio etc and says those trite words I switch off from anything they have to say.

I’m still waiting for the answer as to why these senior Tory politicians covered themselves in mint sauce and offered themselves up as sacrificial lambs? What is in it for them other than their principles?

Peoples Vote
Peoples Parliament 

Looks like both sides are trying to claim the people.
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#16
(09-04-2019, 07:35 AM)John Osborne’s Knuckle Wrote:
(09-04-2019, 06:56 AM)Ossian Wrote: It's a recurring mantra with leavers, this "it's somebody else's fault". It underpinned a sizeable chunk of the leave vote: "the EU force us to do this", "the EU prevent us from doing that"...

Mostly, as Derek has already illustrated, it is ill-informed, easily dismantled, and often a device for hiding from reality. A tantrum, to be quite frank.
I think it’s fair to say that it is the remain supporters who have demonstrated the biggest dummy out the pram, foot stamping, tantrum over the last three years because the referendum didn’t go their way.

You never answers the question who did you vote for at the last election? Where do you stand in this current incarnation of the Tory government? Why would senior Tories knowingly vote against the government when they know it will see them kicked out the party they love(d)?
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#17
As Leavers are so fond of saying. There were only two options on the ballot paper.

Parliament’s current action still means we’re leaving as “the people” wanted, just not in the most suicidal way imaginable.
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#18
(09-03-2019, 08:45 PM)Sotv Wrote:
(09-03-2019, 08:13 PM)HeathAyIt Wrote: It's very telling that one by one all of those that were choc full of Tory Brexit wisdom on this site a couple of years back have melted off into the ether.

Have we? Maybe they know it’s pointless arguing with many remainers who’s have displayed a level of arrogance and zealousness that shows they can change their minds. 
Personally I’ve not been on here as much because of the above and also because I’ve moved house and also have a new job which I’m spending a lot of time on.
Oooh  too busy. Yeah. I'm sure.
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#19
[Image: 70189110_10156190203830810_8360605749532...e=5DCD3F56]
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#20
(09-04-2019, 07:35 AM)John Osborne’s Knuckle Wrote:
(09-04-2019, 06:56 AM)Ossian Wrote: It's a recurring mantra with leavers, this "it's somebody else's fault". It underpinned a sizeable chunk of the leave vote: "the EU force us to do this", "the EU prevent us from doing that"...

Mostly, as Derek has already illustrated, it is ill-informed, easily dismantled, and often a device for hiding from reality. A tantrum, to be quite frank.
I think it’s fair to say that it is the remain supporters who have demonstrated the biggest dummy out the pram, foot stamping, tantrum over the last three years because the referendum didn’t go their way.

Wow. For 2 years most remainers were unhappy yes but weren't spitting their dummy out at all. In fact it was only when quite possibly the worst Prime minister in our history - Theresa May - who followed the second worst in Cameron - created a deal to to try and keep the Tory party in tact rather than put Britain first, that the last year of dummy spitting on all sides has really got going. 

It beggars belief some of the decisions that have been made by the Tories over the last 3 years to try and keep their party together and themselves in power regardless of the cost to the country: the referendum in the first place - Cameron thinking he'd shut the eurosceptics up in the party and get on with another 4 years as the big boss, not making the whole exit deal negotiation and solution cross party from day 1, having an election where a majority was reduced, creating a deal that was the worst of all deals, hiring and firing cabinet members willy nilly over 18 mths so nothing really got done and now appointing the biggest two-faced, bare faced liar to the highest office. Anyone who is taken in by Johnson is quite frankly an idiot. The whole messy hair, buffoonery, say what you see, ruffian and old scamp Daily Mail readers racist and bigoted delight shouldn't fool anyone....but it does - shame on them. A guy from West Bromwich was on the radio this morning saying how he was looking forward to Johnson and Farage in power....jesus

Just to balance this mind... at probably one of the most important points in our history we have needed a competent and believable opposition to hold an abject government to account and to protect the citizens of this country. What we've had is quite possibly the worst opposition to a government of all time. Shilly shallying, indecisive, unbelievable and on many occasions downright stupid and self serving. 

The whole thing is a travesty. Don't blame remainers though - we stuck by the decision for 2 years until you lot of leavers started to ask questions about a deal that was never going to realise your dreams of booting the immigrants out, getting the £350m off the side of the bus but still having all the nice euro deals and benefits.
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